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  1. #11
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by murkrow View Post
    NTs aren't trying to start semantic arguments.

    We listen to the words you say to us and then respond to their meaning.
    But what exactly do you mean by "meaning", anyway?
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by teslashock View Post
    Wait, Circle, what do you mean when you say "stooping to the same level"? Do you mean to imply that arguments based on semantics are some how inherently inferior to your own contentions? Or do you mean to imply that you're personally turned off by such arguments? Or do you think that people who make such arguments are just plain stupid for not getting the general idea prior to [over]analyzing the details?

    I'm going to need some clarification before I can contribute anymore to this thread...

    Very clever. Seems like some people took your "tomfoolery" seriously though.

    Despite being an introvert, when the mood hits me, I like to play devil's advocate in a classroom discussion, and I become the semantics fiend and throw the topic off balance.
    The purple sun won't heal my purple bruises :ouch:

  3. #13
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    I hate semantic arguments. I usually look at an overrall impression of someone's argument/point.

    Now let's not confuse semantics with incorrect definitions. If you define a concept or phenomenon sufficiently incorrectly then this changes hte content and meaning of your argument. This is different to semantics.
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    I hate semantic arguments. I usually look at an overrall impression of someone's argument/point.

    Now let's not confuse semantics with incorrect definitions. If you define a concept or phenomenon sufficiently incorrectly then this changes hte content and meaning of your argument. This is different to semantics.
    I think you're talking about those annoying cases where the person says something silly like "it depends on what the meaning of is is."

    That is usually just intellectual posturing, or plain ol' evasion.
    The purple sun won't heal my purple bruises :ouch:

  5. #15
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Circle View Post
    I don't understand where this behavior comes from. Is it because they've spent so much time around people that this works on? What is the best way to respond so that the argument can be settled without stooping to the same level? Thanks in advance.
    I can't speak for all NT's, but if it seems like I'm focusing on what words you are using it is because I don't really understand what you are trying to say. I want to clarify the meaning of the words, so that I can understand what you are saying.
    My wife and I made a game to teach kids about nutrition. Please try our game and vote for us to win. (Voting period: July 14 - August 14)
    http://www.revoltingvegetables.com

  6. #16
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by teslashock View Post
    It's a Ti thing.
    ESTPs use Ti, as well. It's more likely Ne fueled... the possibility that this can mean that or that or that.

    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    I won't deny that we revel in some degree of pedantry at times, but usually the purpose is clarification of terms for the sake of clearer and more effective communication--not just nitpicking for the sake of annoying people.
    This. Most times we don't do it to annoy, we actually want to make things clear before proceeding, so we don't get caught in traps or assign you to arguments that are not yours.

    Quote Originally Posted by Circle View Post
    What is the best way to respond so that the argument can be settled without stooping to the same level? Thanks in advance.
    If I were you, it would be easier to be clear and absolute. Meaning, don't get tangled up in a word debate. Say, "no, I meant this and I've said it clearly already, so let's just move on". Refuse to engage with any unreasonable person who "pretends" not to understand you. Not worth the effort.

  7. #17
    Listening Oaky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Circle View Post
    Semantic dispute - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    That explains it a bit more. To put it in my own words, it is when someone attempts to focus the argument on word meaning rather than what is actually being described. I try to steer the argument back onto what is being said not how we are saying it, but they will steer around me with more semantics and nothing gets accomplished.
    It quite annoys me when people do this. I get the idea that they know exactly what I'm talking about but keep straying from the argument to avoid it.

  8. #18
    78% me Eruca's Avatar
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    Speaking for myself. I often find myself *stuck* between multiple counter-arguments, unsure which to use as I am unsure of my oponent's argument.

    If they said A but they mean B, I should counter with C.
    If they said A but they mean D, I should counter with E.

    You might say "Well if they say A they mean A!". In my experience this often isnt the case. To me, A might mean B, only a slight difference is required. Most people seem woefully unaware how easy it is to missunderstand another person's position.

    I can't speak for the other types, but if a INTP asks you to "define X", its not that they cant find a counter-argument, its that they dont know the correct arguement to bring to the table.
    I hope I'm wrong, but I believe that he is a fraud, and I think despite all of his rhetoric about being a champion of the working class, it will turn out to be hollow -- Bernie Sanders on Trump

  9. #19
    Geolectric teslashock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    ESTPs use Ti, as well. It's more likely Ne fueled... the possibility that this can mean that or that or that.
    Yeah I meant NT Ti, considering that was what the OP decided to talk about in this thread. Sorry for not specifying; I think we should argue about the semantics of what you quoted me on now. Ready, go...

    But yes, I definitely agree with you that Ne fuels this along, but I think deciding to back off of Ti and go more with your Ne hunch will aid in the situation. It's Ti coupled with Ne. It's not a really a typical behavior of NFPs so much as NTPs.

    Quote Originally Posted by purplesunset View Post
    Very clever. Seems like some people took your "tomfoolery" seriously though.
    Or some people are countering my tomfoolery with more tomfoolery.

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    I can't speak for all NT's, but if it seems like I'm focusing on what words you are using it is because I don't really understand what you are trying to say. I want to clarify the meaning of the words, so that I can understand what you are saying.
    Yes, this is often the case for me too. I can see all the possible different meanings very well, but I have a really hard time figuring which meaning is the "correct" one and sticking with it.

    Some times I use it as a way of throwing an argument off course though, but usually only when the person is really bad at clarifying themselves in the first place, so I try to use that inability against them.

    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    But what exactly do you mean by "meaning", anyway?
    Hypocrite :1377:

  10. #20
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    yeah...im usually only pedantic to make sure what im trying to say gets across. once the definitions are established, we can build upon them

    this prolly happens because as an N (or for whatever other reason), i seem to assign meanings to words that might not necessarily coincide with the way everyone else uses that word. so before i can argue with you, i have to know how to get m point across to you.


    like try to see the difference between the way normal people think about gravity and the way a physicist thinks about gravity and the way a mathematician thinks about gravity and the way a 5 year old thinks about gravity

    comes down to people's perception

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