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[NT] NT's and earning money

INTPness

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Money isn't everything, obviously (not by a long shot), but I was in a discussion the other day with an ESTJ about money and I realized that of all the people I know, when I look at the function that is most common in the people that are making "good money" - it is far and away the "T" function. it is the T's that are making money in their careers. Not that I don't know an F here or there that earns decent money, but it's pretty much a landslide when I compare the T's and F's in this one area of life.

What does this mean? Some possibilities:
1. F's don't care as much about earning money as T's do?
2. T's are more capable/aggressive in this area (at least in regards to the way society/business is structured). Logical thinking pays off?
3. Most males are T's and most F's are female and since males still earn more on average (not saying it's fair, just saying it's still a fact) this plays a part?
4. Some other conclusions?

Here is a snapshot of the earning characteristics of the NT types that I know. Disclaimer: This is NOT a statement that some types are incapable or inept, just simply an observation of the people that I know.

ENTJ's - usually doing very well in their careers. I would even say that they are often slowly building their own little empires.

ENTP's - if I consider their entire adult working lives, it is somewhat up and down financially. There are periods where they do very well and periods where they perhaps lose interest in a business venture or the corporate world and their finances might suffer. When they do well, however, they do considerably well.

INTJ's - very responsible and hard-working and do well in their careers, although there doesn't seem to be the "through the roof" earnings that you sometimes see with other types. Not that they aren't capable, but the ones I know are usually in government positions/university positions that pay well, but they aren't becoming millionaires in those positions.

INTP's - :dont: In all seriousness, my observation here is that we bounce around so much and change our interests/pursuits and can also be so downright lazy/disinterested at times that we often hurting financially. Interestingly enough, there seem to be 10% or so that make up their mind to dedicate themselves to something and do really, really well. The potential is there. It's arguable if Bill Gates is INTP, but if he is, that would be the best example of one who made up his mind and dedicated himself to something (please don't turn this thread into an argument about Bill Gates' type - I'm sure there's another thread for that).

I'll add the following "T" types:

ESTJ's - seem to do very well financially and be very dedicated to their careers, but the earnings are not usually up there with ENTJ's. The ESTJ's I know are supervisors, managers, and small business owners - and the ones that own small businesses aren't willing to expand their businesses. They prefer to keep them small and manageable and that limits income somewhat.

ISTJ's - seem to do very well financially as well, whether they be accountants/CPA's, engineers, draftsmen, underwriters, etc. But, these positions are much like the INTJ's and ESTJ's - they aren't going to earn as much over a lifetime as the ENTJ's and possibly ENTP's (and small percentage of INTP's).

ESTP's/ISTP's - I don't know enough of these to really summarize it, other than to say that they do fairly well and have the potential to earn well in their careers.

The "TP's" tend to earn well in spurts. Up and down, because they are changing careers every few years. The "TJ's" are more consistent and stick with things more, which is understandable considering the difference between P and J.

Thoughts? Observations of your own?
 

entropie

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In EVE online the pirates own. Meaning biggest gun, biggest profit. I'ld say those are evil NF guys !
 

avolkiteshvara

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Bill gates is xNTJ

Sorry to break it to you, but as INTP, you'll be poor forever. Alternatively, we are pretty good at RPG.
 

Silencio

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Money isn't everything, obviously (not by a long shot), but I was in a discussion the other day with an ESTJ about money and I realized that of all the people I know, when I look at the function that is most common in the people that are making "good money" - it is far and away the "T" function. it is the T's that are making money in their careers. Not that I don't know an F here or there that earns decent money, but it's pretty much a landslide when I compare the T's and F's in this one area of life.

What does this mean? Some possibilities:
1. F's don't care as much about earning money as T's do?
2. T's are more capable/aggressive in this area (at least in regards to the way society/business is structured). Logical thinking pays off?
3. Most males are T's and most F's are female and since males still earn more on average (not saying it's fair, just saying it's still a fact) this plays a part?
4. Some other conclusions?

Here is a snapshot of the earning characteristics of the NT types that I know. Disclaimer: This is NOT a statement that some types are incapable or inept, just simply an observation of the people that I know.

ENTJ's - usually doing very well in their careers. I would even say that they are often slowly building their own little empires.

ENTP's - if I consider their entire adult working lives, it is somewhat up and down financially. There are periods where they do very well and periods where they perhaps lose interest in a business venture or the corporate world and their finances might suffer. When they do well, however, they do considerably well.

INTJ's - very responsible and hard-working and do well in their careers, although there doesn't seem to be the "through the roof" earnings that you sometimes see with other types. Not that they aren't capable, but the ones I know are usually in government positions/university positions that pay well, but they aren't becoming millionaires in those positions.

INTP's - :dont: In all seriousness, my observation here is that we bounce around so much and change our interests/pursuits and can also be so downright lazy/disinterested at times that we often hurting financially. Interestingly enough, there seem to be 10% or so that make up their mind to dedicate themselves to something and do really, really well. The potential is there. It's arguable if Bill Gates is INTP, but if he is, that would be the best example of one who made up his mind and dedicated himself to something (please don't turn this thread into an argument about Bill Gates' type - I'm sure there's another thread for that).

I'll add the following "T" types:

ESTJ's - seem to do very well financially and be very dedicated to their careers, but the earnings are not usually up there with ENTJ's. The ESTJ's I know are supervisors, managers, and small business owners - and the ones that own small businesses aren't willing to expand their businesses. They prefer to keep them small and manageable and that limits income somewhat.

ISTJ's - seem to do very well financially as well, whether they be accountants/CPA's, engineers, draftsmen, underwriters, etc. But, these positions are much like the INTJ's and ESTJ's - they aren't going to earn as much over a lifetime as the ENTJ's and possibly ENTP's (and small percentage of INTP's).

ESTP's/ISTP's - I don't know enough of these to really summarize it, other than to say that they do fairly well and have the potential to earn well in their careers.

The "TP's" tend to earn well in spurts. Up and down, because they are changing careers every few years. The "TJ's" are more consistent and stick with things more, which is understandable considering the difference between P and J.

Thoughts? Observations of your own?

I saw a documentary on the beginning of computers and Bill Gates is DEFINITELY an ENTJ (Just because he looks like an INTP doesn't mean he is one :D) . Let the arguments begin!

Anyways, I like the idea that men earn more money because they are more T dominant on average. This might just be a case of strong correlation as there are other possibilites.
 

entropie

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Pirates of Silicon Valley ? loved that doku
 

INTPness

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I saw a documentary on the beginning of computers and Bill Gates is DEFINITELY an ENTJ (Just because he looks like an INTP doesn't mean he is one :D) . Let the arguments begin!

Anyways, I like the idea that men earn more money because they are more T dominant on average. This might just be a case of strong correlation as there are other possibilites.

OK, Gates is ENTJ. I knew I should have left that part out. :doh: His type wasn't the point of my post at all. For the purposes of this thread, I couldn't care less if he's ESFJ.
 

INTPness

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Sorry to break it to you, but as INTP, you'll be poor forever. Alternatively, we are pretty good at RPG.

LOL. What? I'm not one of the 18 year-olds asking what I should do for a career. Talk about allowing yourself to be trapped into an archetype! :shock:
 

purplesunset

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Ah, there is much to be said on this topic. I wonder if there is an inverse relationship between how capable a type is of fantasizing and how much money they end up making.

What am I talking about?

Well, making money can potentially involve

- sucking it up and doing what is required of you (whatever the "it" might be. It could mean enduring extreme unhappiness with your job)


- doing a routine, mind-numbing job

- facing harsh reality.

- taking orders from higher ups and keeping your mouth shut even when something is against your ideals

- acting mature according to the world's standards (i.e. no more diablo 2, no more medieval reenactment fairs)

Well, INFP's are basically doomed at the starting line because they are probably the most fantasizing type. I would imagine F's in general might be less likely to do something that disagrees with their ethics even though logically it might be wise to so in order to make more money.

INTP's strike me as being the most fantasizing type among the thinkers and aren't much better off than their INFP cousins in this regard. I know that INTP's, no matter how brilliant, can slack off with the best (or worst) of them. This would make us have a much harder time doing something on the above list just to make money.


I think it all comes down to what the world requires of you in order to make money. Certain types just have a much harder time sucking it up,and compromising their inner cores to do the grind it takes to make money (at least in the traditional, working hard to climb the corporate ladder way)

So I don't really see it as a question of capability, but more a question of how much of your inner core are you willing to compromise to make money. If your inner core involves fantasies, and you're not writer, artist, or game developer (lucky bastards ! grrr), then it's going to be that much harder for you to compete in the traditional rat race with those types who don't have as rich an inner world.
 

nozflubber

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the STPs I know and see LOVE earning money. they love the hustle and bustle, flipping houses, cars, drugs, athletic apparel, you name it. They are your classic traders, runners, movers and merchants by temperament. they'd be so stinking rich compared to all the other types if they didn't like to blow cash as quickly as they make it :D
 

simulatedworld

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the STPs I know and see LOVE earning money. they love the hustle and bustle, flipping houses, cars, drugs, athletic apparel, you name it. They are your classic traders, runners, movers and merchants by temperament. they'd be so stinking rich compared to all the other types if they didn't like to blow cash as quickly as they make it :D

Ever notice how like 90% of drug dealers are STPs?
 

simulatedworld

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How would you even gather that statistic?

Psychic powers, duh


btw, to answer the OP:

It's Te and Se that seem to great at making money, not Ti. NTJs and STJs are among the highest earners, along with ESTPs, but NTPs not so much. I remember a while ago somebody posted some statistics on average income and both NTP types were near the bottom (I think ENTP was the absolute lowest!) But ENTJ, ESTJ and ESTP were all right at the top.
 

INTPness

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Ah, there is much to be said on this topic. I wonder if there is an inverse relationship between how capable a type is of fantasizing and how much money they end up making.

What am I talking about?

Well, making money can potentially involve

- sucking it up and doing what is required of you (whatever the "it" might be. It could mean enduring extreme unhappiness with your job)


- doing a routine, mind-numbing job

- facing harsh reality.

- taking orders from higher ups and keeping your mouth shut even when something is against your ideals

- acting mature according to the world's standards (i.e. no more diablo 2, no more medieval reenactment fairs)

Well, INFP's are basically doomed at the starting line because they are probably the most fantasizing type. I would imagine F's in general might be less likely to do something that disagrees with their ethics even though logically it might be wise to so in order to make more money.

INTP's strike me as being the most fantasizing type among the thinkers and aren't much better off than their INFP cousins in this regard. I know that INTP's, no matter how brilliant, can slack off with the best (or worst) of them. This would make us have a much harder time doing something on the above list just to make money.


I think it all comes down to what the world requires of you in order to make money. Certain types just have a much harder time sucking it up,and compromising their inner cores to do the grind it takes to make money (at least in the traditional, working hard to climb the corporate ladder way)

So I don't really see it as a question of capability, but more a question of how much of your inner core are you willing to compromise to make money. If your inner core involves fantasies, and you're not writer, artist, or game developer (lucky bastards ! grrr), then it's going to be that much harder for you to compete in the traditional rat race with those types who don't have as rich an inner world.

Interesting comments. I think it's important to make the distinction between fantasizing and "having vision". I agree with you that at some point the daydreamers have to "get to work" in the concrete world rather than just fantasize all day. That's very important if one wants to make progress. But, I also see a lot of N types as visionaries - including ENTJ's. I think it's important to see it in your mind's eye before you do it. The ESTJ's might disagree with this (they tend to dive right in), but the ENTJ's and other N's have a vision of what they would like to accomplish.
 

purplesunset

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Psychic powers, duh


btw, to answer the OP:

It's Te and Se that seem to great at making money, not Ti. NTJs and STJs are among the highest earners, along with ESTPs, but NTPs not so much. I remember a while ago somebody posted some statistics on average income and both NTP types were near the bottom (I think ENTP was the absolute lowest!) But ENTJ, ESTJ and ESTP were all right at the top.


Which sort of supports what I said above about there being an inverse relationship between the type's ability to fantasize and making money. Ti+Ne, just like Fi+Ne is capable of great flights of fancy.

It is harder to compete with Se+Te in their domain. Or, to put it another way, it hurts us more than it hurts them to do the sacrifices it takes since they're not so caught up in their inner world.
 

INTPness

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Psychic powers, duh


btw, to answer the OP:

It's Te and Se that seem to great at making money, not Ti. NTJs and STJs are among the highest earners, along with ESTPs, but NTPs not so much. I remember a while ago somebody posted some statistics on average income and both NTP types were near the bottom (I think ENTP was the absolute lowest!) But ENTJ, ESTJ and ESTP were all right at the top.

ENTP the lowest? I know some VERY successful ENTP's. 4 of them to be exact. What am I missing? You guys are the so-called "entrepreneurs" of typology.
 

simulatedworld

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ENTP the lowest? I know some VERY successful ENTP's. 4 of them to be exact. What am I missing? You guys are the so-called "entrepreneurs" of typology.

Yeah but most of us are more interested in our pet projects than we are in making money. If our pet projects happen to make money, then great, but that's not the case for most of us.
 

INTPness

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Yeah but most of us are more interested in our pet projects than we are in making money. If our pet projects happen to make money, then great, but that's not the case for most of us.

Do you feel that you could make a lot of money (pretty well above average or higher) if you wanted to? If so, what would it require? Would you feel that you were "selling out" to the corporate world or the powers that be? Or maybe just more dedication and less daydreaming/pet projects?
 

highlander

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As you go up the ladder in organizations, TJ becomes overwhelmingly dominant, so that is one reason they make more. I believe this likely due to their strong organizational skills and them being very outcomes/results focused. ISTJs and INTJs are represented in upper management ranks in a much higher percentage when compared to the proportion of them in the overall population. For example, it something like 15% of the executive suite is INTJs and 35% is ISTJ.

Depending on the occupation, INTPs can do extremely well financially too. I know several who are making quite good money. The I ones know that do well are entrepreneurial, articulate, adaptable, efficient, and operate with impressive interpersonal finesse.

I have no facts to back it up but believe that ESTPs and ENTPs would be particularly well suited to entrepreneurial ventures and if those ventures are successful, could be among those who really make an immense amount (and perhaps lose it too). They may bristle at the constraints and red tape within a large organization. I think Steve Jobs is an ENTP, for example.

EDIT: The other thing I thought of is that strategy and vision are important, but are nothing without execution, which is a TJ forte.
 

yenom

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Bill gates is xNTJ

Sorry to break it to you, but as INTP, you'll be poor forever. Alternatively, we are pretty good at RPG.

The internet will destroy Bill Gates' wealth.

From now on i will be an INTP and I am going to prove you are wrong.

To say Ps have no chance of amassing huge wealth is BS. You can shove the words you said to the grave.

PlentyofFish

The owner of Plenty of Fish, Markus Frind, a dating site, is an INTP.
He was an extreme introvert and a big slacker based on an interview from Inc. magazine.
 

simulatedworld

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Do you feel that you could make a lot of money (pretty well above average or higher) if you wanted to? If so, what would it require? Would you feel that you were "selling out" to the corporate world or the powers that be? Or maybe just more dedication and less daydreaming/pet projects?

I don't think most ENTPs would care about the ethical implications of "selling out." For me, at least, the whole problem is boredom and being required to stick to consistent schedules--that is why I have a problem with 9-5 jobs. I need freedom to work at my own pace and I'm never motivated to do anything if it's boring.

If an ENTP happens to really enjoy doing some really profitable job, he will make tons of money. The problem is most of us have trouble aligning our interests with profitable corporate jobs.
 
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