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[NT] NT's and earning money

fill

"Everything in its place"
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507
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entp
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I hate to sound like an ass. And I try to be careful of too much self-confidence.

But look: I'm going to be successful. Why? Because it seems for some reason I just "get" things without much experience what-so-ever. And I like challenges- big ones- life tends to fit well in that category.

See,
I really don't like people much at all- but I've found myself very successful without a lot of people involved. I have something against routines- and I'll have problems with procrastination, but- really- dawg, I got this shit.

I've always done things well I put effort into. To me, when a lot of people put effort into things, it seems they're trying to do something they know how to do best, which I do do, but I do more. I'll do something I've just learned like I've known it all my life. That's the most of anything I have I can call a "goal." I think goals set limitations- I'd rather set my sights to infinity and beyond.
 

simulatedworld

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I hate to sound like an ass. And I try to be careful of too much self-confidence.

But look: I'm going to be successful. Why? Because it seems for some reason I just "get" things without much experience what-so-ever. And I like challenges- big ones- life tends to fit well in that category.

See,
I really don't like people much at all- but I've found myself very successful without a lot of people involved. I have something against routines- and I'll have problems with procrastination, but- really- dawg, I got this shit.

I've always done things well I put effort into. To me, when a lot of people put effort into things, it seems they're trying to do something they know how to do best, which I do do, but I do more. I'll do something I've just learned like I've known it all my life. That's the most of anything I have I can call a "goal." I think goals set limitations- I'd rather set my sights to infinity and beyond.

lol

I remember when I thought this way. Life was a lot simpler then.
 

simulatedworld

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Well fuck. I'm excited to what makes me fall on my ass.

The main thing I learned from public school was that I was going to be really successful without trying. This worked for me through college, and then I realized that, despite all my past experiences, you actually have to try to get anywhere in real life.

Still working on that...but trust me, you can't bullshit your way into a successful career or a lot of money without trying. Unfortunately the N magic runs out and you're stuck actually having to learn things, study and work hard. It's a bitch, I know, but better to learn sooner than later.
 

highlander

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I hate to sound like an ass. And I try to be careful of too much self-confidence.

But look: I'm going to be successful. Why? Because it seems for some reason I just "get" things without much experience what-so-ever. And I like challenges- big ones- life tends to fit well in that category.

See,
I really don't like people much at all- but I've found myself very successful without a lot of people involved. I have something against routines- and I'll have problems with procrastination, but- really- dawg, I got this shit.

I've always done things well I put effort into. To me, when a lot of people put effort into things, it seems they're trying to do something they know how to do best, which I do do, but I do more. I'll do something I've just learned like I've known it all my life. That's the most of anything I have I can call a "goal." I think goals set limitations- I'd rather set my sights to infinity and beyond.

I am hesitant to respond but find that I cannot restrain myself.

First, it's great you have confidence. It's also great that you master things quickly and can do things you haven't done before. Those are real strengths. I think everybody procrastinates - just on different things. There are ways around this, but it is difficult to do without the help of others. If you don't like people much and think you can do it on your own, and if you don't have more concrete goals, I think you'll have a hard time of it.

Edit: Unless you have a job taking care of animals, but even then you're likely to have customers that own them.
 

FDG

pathwise dependent
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yeah well, Fs do better in school, so it's just completely fair that Ts do better in their careers

anyway I haven't observed many types through their careers, since I'm young. I see that my ISFJ girlfriend is a bit too responsible and risk-averse to earn a lot of money for example, even tho she's really smart. Same for an ENFP friend, her work performance can be affected by mood swings, which probably on the long run might also result in impulsive decisions, dunno.

J-P divide: I think it's mostly relevant when somebody is EXTREMELY P. If you're immensely P then you're not likely to hold a job, project, etc. for a long time, and that can cut you off from any higher earnings potential. However, for "average" Ps there shouldn't be big problems.

Personally I always aimed since I was a kid at having a job with high hourly wage and nonfixed schedule, so that I could maximize my free time in good weather days and maximize my work schedule when I dont' have anything else to do. Other people probably didn't start thinking about this so early, that could be one reason why ENTJs end up so well: thinking more about your long-term career prospects.
 

simulatedworld

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yeah well, Fs do better in school, so it's just completely fair that Ts do better in their careers

I don't think how well we do in school has to do with T/F. I think it's much more dependent on P/J. Most Js I know are good students, and most Ps have significantly more trouble dealing with rigorously scheduled/structured education (although some get through it.)
 

FDG

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I don't think how well we do in school has to do with T/F. I think it's much more dependent on P/J. Most Js I know are good students, and most Ps have significantly more trouble dealing with rigorously scheduled/structured education (although some get through it.)

Idk...every F girl I know have been able to get slightly better grades than me after I taught them the subject (lol). That's how I formed my opinion...but all those girls were FJ, it could be different for FPs. In fact, they were all ISFJs.
 

avolkiteshvara

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The main thing I learned from public school was that I was going to be really successful without trying. This worked for me through college, and then I realized that, despite all my past experiences, you actually have to try to get anywhere in real life.

Still working on that...but trust me, you can't bullshit your way into a successful career or a lot of money without trying. Unfortunately the N magic runs out and you're stuck actually having to learn things, study and work hard. It's a bitch, I know, but better to learn sooner than later.

SW has it down for INTP also. We can easily kick ass in school. But in the real world, conforming to norms to achieve doesn't get us much past basic subsistence.


I think the key is to partner with a an SJ that can keep us on track. I always imagined if I hired an assistant, I'd make sure she was SJ. Maybe even xSFJ so I wouldn't have to deal with people I don't want to.
 

fill

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There are ways around this, but it is difficult to do without the help of others. If you don't like people much and think you can do it on your own, and if you don't have more concrete goals, I think you'll have a hard time of it.

I once found myself destined to create films. Then I realized the entire industry revolved around the sad subjectivity of people. This is what I'm talking about. I have little feeling when it comes to dealing with people. I don't treat them any better or worse than I treat myself. And I'm not a mean person- I just find myself interacting with them as little as possible.

You could say that's a bad thing- but my current job almost permits it. One part of it, yes, is support- but I have no trouble with it because, as sick as it sounds, I like to be acknowledged as knowing a great deal about something and being relied upon for it. But, I in no way would ever work at a summer camp, as a secretary, a customer support line, a retail store, a fast food restaurant, a restaurant (unless I'm running it), etc. Before responding to this, read below:

The main thing I learned from public school was that I was going to be really successful without trying. This worked for me through college, and then I realized that, despite all my past experiences, you actually have to try to get anywhere in real life.

Still working on that...but trust me, you can't bullshit your way into a successful career or a lot of money without trying. Unfortunately the N magic runs out and you're stuck actually having to learn things, study and work hard. It's a bitch, I know, but better to learn sooner than later.

And I agree. I feel my words have been a bit misinterpreted. I love challenges. Big challenges at that. I think my procrastination comes from putting off things things I find small and insignificant, which I find a lot of things to fit this model, especially daily life. But things I am fascinated by I see as significant, which includes buildings and creating them. Hence my focus on architecture. Which is something you really can't bullshit your way through and is appealing because of it.

And I do have a very general goal of what I want to do with my life; but I'm pretty okay if it changes. “We must let go of the life we have planned, so as to accept the one that is waiting for us.” – Joseph Campbell
 

lets eat pie

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Interesting comments. I think it's important to make the distinction between fantasizing and "having vision". I agree with you that at some point the daydreamers have to "get to work" in the concrete world rather than just fantasize all day. That's very important if one wants to make progress. But, I also see a lot of N types as visionaries - including ENTJ's. I think it's important to see it in your mind's eye before you do it. The ESTJ's might disagree with this (they tend to dive right in), but the ENTJ's and other N's have a vision of what they would like to accomplish.

Agreed. There's nothing wrong with building castles in the sky. Afterward, all you have to do is lay its foundations. Not only does it make it easier to stand the grind of daily work and life, I find it absolutely necessary to get anywhere beyond the need to survive.
 

yenom

Alexander the Terrible
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J-P divide: I think it's mostly relevant when somebody is EXTREMELY P. If you're immensely P then you're not likely to hold a job, project, etc. for a long time, and that can cut you off from any higher earnings potential. However, for "average" Ps there shouldn't be big problems.
Woah, Woah, I think you are confusing something. What does holding a job have to do with getting rich. From my understanding, rich people don't work and just collect money. So stop shoving your BS standards with us.

And I am extremely P. I have seen extreme Ps who made to extreme wealth. Markus Frind for one.
 

FDG

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Woah, Woah, I think you are confusing something. What does holding a job have to do with getting rich. From my understanding, rich people don't work and just collect money. So stop shoving your BS standards with us.

You're stupid. A population that ON AVERAGE cannot hold a job or complete a project is unlikely to get rich as a whole. You've shown multiple times to have zero understanding of economics-finance, go read something.
 

yenom

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You're stupid. A population that ON AVERAGE cannot hold a job or complete a project is unlikely to get rich as a whole. You've shown multiple times to have zero understanding of economics-finance, go read something.

Aww thanks. :hug:

Your above post is complete BS. You are saying Ps are less likely to get rich than Js in a politically correct manner because Ps lack work ethnic.

And what right do you have to call me stupid. Have you made it into the forbes list and is a billionare now? Are you the richest member of this forum?
 

FDG

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Aww thanks. :hug:

Your above post is complete BS. You are saying Ps are less likely to get rich than Js in a politically correct manner because Ps lack work ethnic.

And what right do you have to call me stupid. Have you made it into the forbes list and is a billionare now? Are you the richest member of this forum?

I said EXTREME Ps. Do you understand that? I explicity said that Ps in the normal P range shouldn't have any trouble. Got it?
 

The_Liquid_Laser

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The types that make the most money are the ones that care the most about making money. The other types don't necessarily lack the ability to make money, but they don't have the same level of desire.

ENTP the lowest? I know some VERY successful ENTP's. 4 of them to be exact. What am I missing? You guys are the so-called "entrepreneurs" of typology.

ENTP probably has the highest variance when it comes to making money. There are probably a lot of ENTP millionaires out there. But for every one of them there are a many more that either live in their parent's basement or in a van down by the river.
 

entropie

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The types that make the most money are the ones that care the most about making money.

That first sentence is brilliant :). And I pointed that out now because I think to hold your mbti type responsible for how much money you earn, cant really work at all.

It is tempting to think that maybe an assertive ET can earn more in the buziness world than a humble IT, but is that really necessary for onself to be known ?

I think its dangerous if you set yourself in the business world such high goals from the start, like "I am an INTP, I will never make money" or "I am an ENTJ I am gonna be on forbes magazine". For an INTP it can result in never trieing anything out, because he can justify his failure in the business world with "I am an INTP, I always suck".

Or the ENTJ that didnt made it on Forbes magazine; he has himself bombarded with so many stereotypes that he could be totally broke by the day he gets 50 years old and is still poor.

What I want to say is that there is more to being sucessful than having talent for it or not. Oliver Kahn a very sucessful german goalkeeper in soccer once said that he has seen many people who got talent over the course of his career, but most of them never made it cause they didnt worked to become better. To say which type is more likely to become rich isnt really possible, like one cant say which type is better with girls.

You can for example have the luck to be born in a place where many girls live that like you and then can after 20 years of your life think you're a playboy, while at another place at another time this could have turned out completly different.

So what I am saying here is, one shouldnt abandon oneself from the start or think from the start his talents are so big he cant become anything else but rich. Becoming successful in the bizness world involves for every person hard work and a bit of luck. Some people have more luck than they do hard work and with some its vice versa.

But to really say that you are successful is in my opinion possible the first time, when you really are.
 

CJ99

Is Willard in Footloose!!
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To be fair though entropie there are types who are more likely to earn more money. Just like there are types more likely to be good with girls - ESTP comes to mind.

All types can make lots of money but some types are likely to better at doing it in certains ways than others. For example Its likely - but not certain - that an INF has a better chance than an ESTJ of getting rich writting romantic novels but in a large corperate company it likely the reverse is true.
 

entropie

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To be fair though entropie there are types who are more likely to earn more money. Just like there are types more likely to be good with girls - ESTP comes to mind.

All types can make lots of money but some types are likely to better at doing it in certains ways than others. For example Its likely - but not certain - that an INF has a better chance than an ESTJ of getting rich writting romantic novels but in a large corperate company it likely the reverse is true.

Yes, I agree. In theory that all sounds nice, I just cant find so far for me any reasonable proof why an entj for example should be more likely to climb up the corporate ladder.

To me that's a huge assumption for the type that can confuse people. Because for example why cant an ENTJ be good at becoming a gardener ?

I am just saying as romantic as this whole mbti theory is, it must leave more room for options or it can narrow down ones mind in a corner full of stereotypes.
 

jenocyde

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ENTP's - if I consider their entire adult working lives, it is somewhat up and down financially. There are periods where they do very well and periods where they perhaps lose interest in a business venture or the corporate world and their finances might suffer. When they do well, however, they do considerably well.

Oh goodness, yes. I'm a pretty extreme earner. I was making a ridiculous sum just barely out of my teens and then got bored and gave it all up to travel and be free, then did it again in early 20s. Rinse and repeat and repeat and repeat...

ESTJ's - seem to do very well financially and be very dedicated to their careers, but the earnings are not usually up there with ENTJ's. The ESTJ's I know are supervisors, managers, and small business owners - and the ones that own small businesses aren't willing to expand their businesses. They prefer to keep them small and manageable and that limits income somewhat.

My ESTJ friends look for manageable security and stay at whatever level they feel comfortable at. Can't blame 'em.

ESTP's/ISTP's - I don't know enough of these to really summarize it, other than to say that they do fairly well and have the potential to earn well in their careers.

ESTPs are like me, too. But I noticed that once they start having responsibilities, they work harder at stability than I do. I've seen ESTPs stay in jobs for years past the expiration date just to make sure their families are fed. Whereas, I would take the chance.

What am I talking about?

Well, making money can potentially involve

- sucking it up and doing what is required of you (whatever the "it" might be. It could mean enduring extreme unhappiness with your job)


- doing a routine, mind-numbing job

- facing harsh reality.

- taking orders from higher ups and keeping your mouth shut even when something is against your ideals

- acting mature according to the world's standards (i.e. no more diablo 2, no more medieval reenactment fairs)

You forgot one:

-being able to crush people with no remorse because you know it's just business.

Honestly though, I think that if I kept my mouth shut and played the game, I would have a stable career instead of earning potential. I got ahead by pushing and being aggressive with whatever pet project amused me at the time.

Ever notice how like 90% of drug dealers are STPs?

:yes:

And you mentioned somewhere in this thread that ENTPs don't earn as much:

# In national sample, among those types most dissatisfied with their work and among those with the highest income.
ENTP Personality Type

I have no facts to back it up but believe that ESTPs and ENTPs would be particularly well suited to entrepreneurial ventures and if those ventures are successful, could be among those who really make an immense amount (and perhaps lose it too). They may bristle at the constraints and red tape within a large organization. I think Steve Jobs is an ENTP, for example.

:yes:

EDIT: The other thing I thought of is that strategy and vision are important, but are nothing without execution, which is a TJ forte.

Strategy, yes. Vision, oftentimes, no.
 
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