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  1. #141
    "Everything in its place" fill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaunward View Post
    ENTJs don't do what they want to do? I know nothing sounds more thrilling, to me, than running a large corporation, pay be damned.
    I don't know? Probably. But I think I THINK Js are more prone to find something they love and stick to it. I'd like to take a poll actually: would you like to wake up to a new job every day if the pay were steady?

    I predict more Js would vote 'no' and more Ps would vote 'yes'. But this is only a theory. And we've all seen what happens here when we don't make it clear that we're only expressing an opinion.
    "Poor bastard. Wait 'till he sees the bats. "
    enneagram - 7/5/3

  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by fill View Post
    I don't know? Probably. But I think I THINK Js are more prone to find something they love and stick to it. I'd like to take a poll actually: would you like to wake up to a new job every day if the pay were steady?

    I predict more Js would vote 'no' and more Ps would vote 'yes'. But this is only a theory. And we've all seen what happens here when we don't make it clear that we're only expressing an opinion.
    You said you belief a P type is the type that makes less money because they do what they want to. I would imagine those doing what they want would stick to what they want once they have it. You seem contradictory unless I've misread something.

  3. #143
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fill View Post
    I don't know? Probably. But I think I THINK Js are more prone to find something they love and stick to it. I'd like to take a poll actually: would you like to wake up to a new job every day if the pay were steady?

    I predict more Js would vote 'no' and more Ps would vote 'yes'. But this is only a theory. And we've all seen what happens here when we don't make it clear that we're only expressing an opinion.
    It seems pretty difficult to become proficient at thousands of jobs, to be honest. Having varied interest is absolutely necessary to live a good life, but a different job everyday just means zero depth for each experience.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  4. #144
    Is Willard in Footloose!! CJ99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaunward View Post
    You said you belief a P type is the type that makes less money because they do what they want to. I would imagine those doing what they want would stick to what they want once they have it. You seem contradictory unless I've misread something.
    I think the point fill was trying to make was that Ps enjoy more change therefore what they want to do would change quite a lot.

    I think this is definatly true with NTPs in particular ENTPs. If you told me I could have a steady income and do a different job every month I would love it!!!!! Far more than doing any one job for years no matter how fun it was!
    "I'd never die for my beliefs, I might be wrong"

    "Is it not enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe there are fairys at the bottom of it too"

    "Intelligence is being able to hold too opposing views in the mind at the one time without going crazy" - Now all I need to figure out is if I'm intelligent or crazy!

  5. #145
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander29 View Post
    Yes, well, I don't dig into how the research is done of course (maybe this is more of an xNTP thing??). I just look at the results. You may very well be right on that point. It did seem like there was a preponderance of evidence from different sources though and the information does seem to sync up with my experiences. That being said, I read somewhere that we are increasingly moving to a "perceiving" world, some of the research is no doubt dated and who knows, it could be changing.
    tragically I was thinking about your book's sample, it is likely t be totall non representative of any audience what so ever (some guys own grown data base is not), HOWEVER it is suitbly large that one could extract a robust representative sample of many industries (it's unlikely the data base represents some areas such as agrecultural etc).... and by extracting a representative profile, we could get to something that would resemble the business population and read the data from there... if that makes sense....

    One thing is crystal clear for sure... I need to get out the house more

    Actually his records will be terribly unrepresentative of various industries, but I'm sure fully represent a good few... Which can't techncailly be extrapolated....

    Still it's likely to be a better source than most given it's a large group.. Sorry researhc is an impossibly nit picky subject, one has to be very careful to define everything so one can tell what a number actually means.


    .............................................

    bless the poor soul above who has THINKS in big letters.... only on an NT thread would that be required

    Lis

  6. #146
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fill View Post
    This can easily sum up why xNxPs are recorded as having a lower income than other types: they do what they want to do, even if it doesn't pay well. And me- hell- I love doing what I do, but I'd love to do something completely different than what I do- and something else completely different from that. I want to try everything- really.
    not totally sure I agree with the logic, I think ENTPs certainyl know how to make money but many of them lack respect and fail to create wealth.

    Interstingly income doens't have much relationship with wealth (although that is anecdotal).... in as much as many people can save invest etc... wisely... ENTPs are likely to spend.

  7. #147
    "Everything in its place" fill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CJ99 View Post
    I think the point fill was trying to make was that Ps enjoy more change therefore what they want to do would change quite a lot.
    Yes, this is exactly what I meant.

    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    not totally sure I agree with the logic, I think ENTPs certainyl know how to make money but many of them lack respect and fail to create wealth.

    Interstingly income doens't have much relationship with wealth (although that is anecdotal).... in as much as many people can save invest etc... wisely... ENTPs are likely to spend.
    Ah, this too. I spend, but I'm very cautious about how I spend. I think it comes from my past experiences with people spending too much and getting burned badly.
    "Poor bastard. Wait 'till he sees the bats. "
    enneagram - 7/5/3

  8. #148
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaunward View Post
    You said you belief a P type is the type that makes less money because they do what they want to. I would imagine those doing what they want would stick to what they want once they have it. You seem contradictory unless I've misread something.
    As alluded to by CJ99, what we want is always changing.

    I too love the idea of running a large corporation. But, if you sat me down and handed it to me - put a large corporation right in my lap - I give myself about a year (2 years tops) before what I want is now something different. It's like I've "been there done that" - ready to do something else. It could even be running a different large corporation, as long as it was new.

    If you're a sports fan at all, you see this a lot with college coaches. The "J's", generally speaking, are having long stints at one college. Joe Paterno has headed-up the Penn State football program for 30+ years I believe. He doesn't need change. He's there for the long haul.

    Then you've got people like Pete Carroll who just left USC to go "back" to the NFL again. I know a lot about Carroll and I believe he is ENTP. He had a fairly long stint of 9 years at USC but, knowing he was xNxP, I knew change was on the horizon. I knew that he'd get bored.

    I know an ENTP who owns a company and after some years, she completely dreads it now. She is so hungry for change that it's causing unhappiness. She is digging deep and looking for something new to be successful at. She'd almost give her right arm to give it all up and work at McDonald's. Bottom line: she feels boxed in and needs a change - some "newness" in her life. That newness makes us feel alive.

  9. #149
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    tragically I was thinking about your book's sample, it is likely t be totall non representative of any audience what so ever (some guys own grown data base is not), HOWEVER it is suitbly large that one could extract a robust representative sample of many industries (it's unlikely the data base represents some areas such as agrecultural etc).... and by extracting a representative profile, we could get to something that would resemble the business population and read the data from there... if that makes sense....

    One thing is crystal clear for sure... I need to get out the house more

    Actually his records will be terribly unrepresentative of various industries, but I'm sure fully represent a good few... Which can't techncailly be extrapolated....

    Still it's likely to be a better source than most given it's a large group.. Sorry researhc is an impossibly nit picky subject, one has to be very careful to define everything so one can tell what a number actually means.


    .............................................

    bless the poor soul above who has THINKS in big letters.... only on an NT thread would that be required

    Lis
    The Type Talk database was created/maintained by this firm:

    OKA (Otto Kroeger Associates) - Staff, Partners, Consulting Team & Associates

    I don't know how big they were when the book was published (was it one guy, 10 people)?

    The thing is, it is not just that one database. There are also numerous other studies referenced in the other book that I mentioned by various outfits - in different countries like US, Japan, UK, etc. There were so many studies referenced in the other book I must admit, I did not have the time to comb through the footnotes, references, to figure out which was which or to read them individually. I did rely on the information and conclusions presented in the book.

  10. #150
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander29 View Post
    The Type Talk database was created/maintained by this firm:

    OKA (Otto Kroeger Associates) - Staff, Partners, Consulting Team & Associates

    I don't know how big they were when the book was published (was it one guy, 10 people)?

    The thing is, it is not just that one database. There are also numerous other studies referenced in the other book that I mentioned by various outfits - in different countries like US, Japan, UK, etc. There were so many studies referenced in the other book I must admit, I did not have the time to comb through the footnotes, references, to figure out which was which or to read them individually. I did rely on the information and conclusions presented in the book.
    I'll have a look (later when I get back from work), but be careful of assuming 1. that because it's a big data base it's representative of any specific auidnece beyond the data that has been collected and 2. that just because something is published doesn't mean the research was conducted well or being fairly reported.

    I've seen some WICKEDLY CRAP reporting in books you by of the shelf, with outragious claims made from badly constructed information/research.....

    I'm sure these data bases are useful, but a I alluded to earlier, it would require use to take a sample of some identifiable population, right now that is unlikely to be acheivable because of the way it is collected.

    We are interested in MBTI by career status or income band within large multi nationals, you could take a sample of muilti nationals from the database (so long as it could be stratified that way)....

    the very scary reality is, no one know what the business population actually looks like as it changes too much esp at the SME end, there are issues about what type of entity is actually a business etc, as there are many holding companies that have no staff that are ultimately a tax dodge, so the bottom line is when it comes to buisiness it's all a little bit vaguer than anyone would like.

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