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  1. #21
    Member astroninja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    I think mostly what bugs me about INTPs is that I routinely use them as examples from which to learn more about Ti, but they never seem to think they have anything to learn from ENTPs.

    It's as if ENTPs value Ti more than INTPs value Ne, which is bizarre. You guys seem content to live in Pure Ti land, which gets boring and repetitive.

    Maybe if you'd bother listening to us once in a while, we could help you be less...I dunno, miserable?
    As an INTP, I can conclude only this

    1) You shouldn't stereotype all INTPs to be just like the INTPs that you have come across. Not all of us are reserved and miserable, and certainly not all of us are following Alice into Wonderland. I value my ability to perceive things without always breaking things down into chunks of intellectual dribble - doing that would take the joy out of everything way too often! I do value my Thinking side quite a bit, but because INTPs are usually fairly adaptable people in various types of cliques, we can work well towards a compromise if it means being happier and getting along with others. To purposely box yourself into your archetype would be ridiculous. People are more multi-dimensional than that, and always respond to different stimuli in varying situations. I will hang out with anyone who I naturally get along with, regardless of their type - okay, except maybe for an ESFP because that's too much of a strain.

    2) I like apple pies when they come straight out of the oven.

    If you valued your Ti more, you would have realized 1) on your own. And my Ne is definitely telling me that you're missing out on knowing some of the more intriguing INTPs because of your pre-conceived misconceptions of us. If you smell what The Rock is cookin'?!?!?!
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  2. #22
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    You're not a very typical example of INTP.
    Yeah, maybe I should bail on using myself as an example or reading it that way.

    (I read the comments about INTPs in the other thread that criticized lack of Ni and could not identify... which actually I use pretty regularly to shuffle through frames, without thinking... and I've got decent F skills.)

    In general, when people discuss INTPs here, I feel like they are evaluating 20-year-old INTPs who hang out on INTPc. I don't think they're entirely representative.

    But I do stand by my statement that ENTPs, on average, value Ti more than INTPs value Ne.
    I can't comment on that, since I admittedly don't have an actual realistic cross-section of INTPs; my only real experience is myself + INTPs over yonder at INTPc. Maybe not a good data pool.

    And isn't "entirely sensibly" kind of relative? That just sounds like the same criticism INTPs always give everyone, which amounts to, "Use more Ti and less of everything else!!"
    Let me explain it for you, since you seem to have misread:

    • I talk in concepts.
    • I don't have data to say something for certain, just the accumulated broad conclusions in my head from data pools I've run across. That is one of the sucky things about being a conceptual thinker... often just the conclusions are kept (i.e., the output and maybe the summary tables), but the raw data is forgotten or junked.
    • Because of that, I didn't feel comfortable saying something binary, which would suggest you NEVER talk sensibly. I didn't want to take too strong a stance and be wrong.
    • So I threw in a fuzzy qualifier to cover my bum.


    It has nothing to do with what you suggested or some sort of hubris, it was actually about qualifying my comment and preserving my integrity.

    Your Ne is leaping around and not qualifying.

    (..mmmm.....Then again, if I think to have intellectual integrity you need to qualify more... then maybe I *am* saying you oughta use your Ti to do that! Gratz. )

    I believe INTPs get stuck in overvaluing the dominant function more than any of the sixteen types. Ti seems to provide the illusion that it's the only function you'll ever need, and a lot of INTPs buy right into that.
    I cannot make such bold a claim -- I can't say it's worse than various indignities practiced by F's -- but I will agree with you that it's a BIG area of hubris for INTPs. (Note that I also think the Judging functions are more susceptible to such abuse. Passive/Perceiving functions are not active, hence you don't even know you have them sometimes, and people more consciously rely on J functions and are far more aware and openly dependent on them.)

    I don't think you do now, but you might have when you were closer to my age.
    ...sigh. Guilty as charged.

    In my mid/late 20's I realized how bad I had been (constantly telling everyone how "more objective" I was than them, how they did not think logically and just made stupid or emotive decisions in my fits of blind defensiveness, blah blah blah)... and when I apologized to another INTP friend of mine, he just rolled his eyes and said, "Yes, you were insufferable."

    I had nothing to say to that.
    He was right.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #23
    Diabolical Kasper's Avatar
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    Favourite? Pfft!

    I know an INTP who's adorable and I love spending time with cause he's so easy to be around.

    An INTJ who is one of my good friends and easy to talk to about anything and everything.

    An ENTJ who was the perfect big brother to look up to.

    And an ENTP that I totally get and find it eerie to watch in action cause she's so familiar.

  4. #24
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    This is what I've found...

    ENTPs: The younger ones, with the annoying-little-brother syndrome aren't cool. ENTPs fake it till they make it, so early on, they can be a pain to be around. The older or more experienced ones can be super cool.

    INTPs: I like the INTP mind-meld. I get along really well with the more anti-authority type of INTPs. The women always seem to be great. Sometimes INTPs are pretty dorky, more so if they had a strict upbringing. Some wait until college to drink and smoke and actually do shit, some just never become cool. Not as bad as INTJs though.

    INTJs: The most consistently cool with me. Easy to be around. Complementary to myself.

    ENTJs: Overall, solid people, with strong values. Extremely easy to hate on though, for good reason. Being around Te all the time can get old fast.

    ... so overall, I might have an xNTP favoritism bias. INTJs are useful though.

  5. #25
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by astroninja View Post
    As an INTP, I can conclude only this

    1) You shouldn't stereotype all INTPs to be just like the INTPs that you have come across. Not all of us are reserved and miserable, and certainly not all of us are following Alice into Wonderland. I value my ability to perceive things without always breaking things down into chunks of intellectual dribble - doing that would take the joy out of everything way too often! I do value my Thinking side quite a bit, but because INTPs are usually fairly adaptable people in various types of cliques, we can work well towards a compromise if it means being happier and getting along with others. To purposely box yourself into your archetype would be ridiculous. People are more multi-dimensional than that, and always respond to different stimuli in varying situations. I will hang out with anyone who I naturally get along with, regardless of their type - okay, except maybe for an ESFP because that's too much of a strain.
    This thread asked for a generalized response. How can I answer a thread about "which is my favorite NT type" without generalizing according to my experience with them? Rest assured, I'm aware that this doesn't apply to 100% of INTPs. I'm just observing a pattern.

    If it makes you feel better, I'm sure you're an Ne wizard with lots of friends and a super fulfilling life.

    Quote Originally Posted by astroninja View Post
    2) I like apple pies when they come straight out of the oven.

    If you valued your Ti more, you would have realized 1) on your own. And my Ne is definitely telling me that you're missing out on knowing some of the more intriguing INTPs because of your pre-conceived misconceptions of us. If you smell what The Rock is cookin'?!?!?!
    I already do realize this. The context of the thread requested a generalized response. If it didn't, the question would be totally unanswerable because no one has met and interacted with every NT on the planet. The structure of the question necessitates that answers be based on generalized impressions of the people we've had past experience with. I don't automatically discount anyone on the basis of psychological type, but that doesn't prevent me from observing general trends about groups. I don't meet a new person, think, "Gosh he's INTP, I'm not gonna talk to him!" and then miss out on that person as a result.

    I also have a number of interesting INTP friends, and not all of them fit this behavioral pattern. But enough of them do that it was worth pointing out, see? That's how this generalized pattern thing works. I also know a couple ENTJs who aren't overbearing dicks, but you didn't defend them, did you? Why not? You only seem interested in correcting inaccurate generalizations about your own group, which suggests to me that you just took this entirely too personally.

    It's amazing how often "YOUR GENERALIZATION ISN'T TRUE 100% OF THE TIME!!!!" comes from people whose group is being generalized. Try not to take it personally.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  6. #26
    Senior Member Oeufa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    You're not a very typical example of INTP. But I do stand by my statement that ENTPs, on average, value Ti more than INTPs value Ne. And isn't "entirely sensibly" kind of relative? That just sounds like the same criticism INTPs always give everyone, which amounts to, "Use more Ti and less of everything else!!"

    I believe INTPs get stuck in overvaluing the dominant function more than any of the sixteen types. Ti seems to provide the illusion that it's the only function you'll ever need, and a lot of INTPs buy right into that.
    I'm not sure I agree with that. I love Ne! I think it's awesome. Whenever I meet any other users of Ne the conversations are delicious - I can't get enough of them . In fact the majority of my social interactions revolve around Ne-Fe with some Si thrown in, and then I live in Ti in my own time.

    Anyway, I only know one other INTP - pretty cool conversations we have. Can sometimes be quite exciting once we get chatting about something we both care about (we've pretty different interests).

    ENTP - the only one I know (I know for certain) is my Granddad! He tends to use Ti around me though and teaches me random stuff (eg. how planes and sailboats work)...

    Not sure I know any INTJs or ENTJs. I haven't perfected typing people yet
    Ti>Ne>Si>Te>Fi>Ni>Se=Fe

    And yes, there are such things as INTPs who overuse emoticons

  7. #27
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Yeah, maybe I should bail on using myself as an example or reading it that way.

    (I read the comments about INTPs in the other thread that criticized lack of Ni and could not identify... which actually I use pretty regularly to shuffle through frames, without thinking... and I've got decent F skills.)

    In general, when people discuss INTPs here, I feel like they are evaluating 20-year-old INTPs who hang out on INTPc. I don't think they're entirely representative.
    Most people on both forums are in their twenties, if I recall the polls correctly. That's probably creating some sort of age bias. Might be interesting to have some more older NTs around here, as there aren't too many now.



    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I can't comment on that, since I admittedly don't have an actual realistic cross-section of INTPs; my only real experience is myself + INTPs over yonder at INTPc. Maybe not a good data pool.



    Let me explain it for you, since you seem to have misread:

    • I talk in concepts.
    • I don't have data to say something for certain, just the accumulated broad conclusions in my head from data pools I've run across. That is one of the sucky things about being a conceptual thinker... often just the conclusions are kept (i.e., the output and maybe the summary tables), but the raw data is forgotten or junked.
    • Because of that, I didn't feel comfortable saying something binary, which would suggest you NEVER talk sensibly. I didn't want to take too strong a stance and be wrong.
    • So I threw in a fuzzy qualifier to cover my bum.


    It has nothing to do with what you suggested or some sort of hubris, it was actually about qualifying my comment and preserving my integrity.

    Your Ne is leaping around and not qualifying.

    (..mmmm.....Then again, if I think to have intellectual integrity you need to qualify more... then maybe I *am* saying you oughta use your Ti to do that! Gratz. )
    I wasn't implying that you intended your comment universally, just that your qualification of ENTPs' "stirring things up" as "not sensible" may very well be based on different definitions of a relative term such as "sensible."

    You seem to have interpreted my response as an indignant outburst at a perceived implication that your observations apply 100% of the time, but it was nothing of the sort. I doubt very seriously that you consider ENTPs to be sensible or not sensible in 100% of cases. All I meant was that "sensible" is a relative term, and that there may be reasons for what ENTPs are doing that you either don't agree with or haven't figured out yet.

    In short, your idea of what's sensible is subjective.



    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I cannot make such bold a claim -- I can't say it's worse than various indignities practiced by F's -- but I will agree with you that it's a BIG area of hubris for INTPs. (Note that I also think the Judging functions are more susceptible to such abuse. Passive/Perceiving functions are not active, hence you don't even know you have them sometimes, and people more consciously rely on J functions and are far more aware and openly dependent on them.)
    Fair point. Come to think of it, ExTJs can be pretty bad about depending exclusively on Te and ignoring auxiliary Pi.



    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    ...sigh. Guilty as charged.

    In my mid/late 20's I realized how bad I had been (constantly telling everyone how "more objective" I was than them, how they did not think logically and just made stupid or emotive decisions in my fits of blind defensiveness, blah blah blah)... and when I apologized to another INTP friend of mine, he just rolled his eyes and said, "Yes, you were insufferable."

    I had nothing to say to that.
    He was right.
    Indeed, becoming sufferable seems to be a long and arduous process.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  8. #28
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    I like other ENTPs, but sometimes when hanging out with them I start to feel like we're all competing to win the conversation

    INTPs are easier to hang out with- they're similar, but much more low key and less likely to monopolize the conversation One of my best friends in college was an INTP and we spent every evening for a few years hanging out, playing games and watching nerdy things on tv together... same type of thoughts, only not competing with me!

    INTJs are weird, not necissarily in a bad way, my honorary younger brother is an INTJ and he's as loyal as a real brother would be, but he's so quiet... and then when we least expect it he either says something hillarious and off the wall or insults someone Their thought process is harder for me to understand than that of INTPs, and they're so quiet that following it is like watching the water for fins to occasionally pop up and give you a location.

    ENTJs are my conversational arch-nemises... I am convinced that they are out to steal the conversation from me and disagree with me I once had a 3 hour argument on the nature of God (as an agnostic arguing with a hard core atheist) because he just wouldn't give up and let me wander off in happy peace! They're stubborn SOBs and they are as dreadfully blunt as INTJs, but it's not as funny since it doesn't come out of the blue! I don't hate them, but they're not my favorite NTs
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  9. #29
    Member astroninja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    This is what I've found...

    ENTJs: Overall, solid people, with strong values. Extremely easy to hate on though, for good reason. Being around Te all the time can get old fast.
    John Cena must be an ENTJ then!

  10. #30
    Senior Member Bri's Avatar
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    I think INTPs are my favorite. I find them fascinating, though a bit hard-headed at times. Other INTJs would come in second. They're brilliant, but a tad boring (myself included *yawn*).

    I don't know if I've met any ENTPs or ENTJs in real life... if I have, I was not brave enough to get to know them well. I'm quite enjoying the ENTPs on the forum here though.

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