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  1. #11
    Alexander the Terrible yenom's Avatar
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    you should also write down thoughts in your head that you are afraid to speak out and discuss with other people. Then find an opportunity to speak out these thoughts rather than keep supressing them.
    The fear of poverty turns people into slaves of money.

    "In this Caesar there are many Mariuses"~Sulla

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  2. #12
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cloud View Post
    you should also write down thoughts in your head that you are afraid to speak out and discuss with other people. Then find an opportunity to speak out these thoughts rather than keep supressing them.
    In a fushia notebook. Sorry chap. i dont make the rules.
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

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  3. #13
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    In a fushia notebook. Sorry chap. i dont make the rules.
    That's it, I give up. Too difficult.

  4. #14
    Alexander the Terrible yenom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    That's it, I give up. Too difficult.
    Language is used as a tool for communication. If you don't plan to use it, what is the point of learning it and storing it in your brain.

    You have to overcome your fear of talking.
    The fear of poverty turns people into slaves of money.

    "In this Caesar there are many Mariuses"~Sulla

    Conquer your inner demons first before you conquer the world.

  5. #15
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    ENTP's, however, have to be around others in order to use Ne, so you guys are more likely to "stay" in these somewhat awkward situations.
    I disagree with the statement that I need to be around others to use Ne. Absolutely not. I can hermit myself away for months and become more mentally productive and creative than ever. We need external stimuli - not necessarily people.

    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    I was reading another thread in this forum which mentioned the possibility that ENTP's might underestimate the importance of Ti, while INTP's might tend to underestimate the importance of Ne.

    I don't think that I underestimate the value of my Ne (I know it's my way of connecting with people and the outside world, and it's also good to get out of my own head).
    I also find that many INTPs, especially, don't see any value beyond their Ti. Being able to think about something in depth is great but if it only remains an internal thought, it is a rather pointless existence. There is beauty and usefulness in every function. Becoming a master of only one really says that you are dense to all the others, which isn't exactly rational, logical or anything to be remotely proud of. I'm glad your view of the world isn't so limited.

    So, the question is: how do you use your Ne to connect with "the masses"? In particular, the 8 "S" types? When you know that you don't have much in common with a group or an individual, but it's still important (or otherwise desirable) to connect with them, how do you do it? Tips? Pointers? What if you start to use Ne and you get the vibe that they aren't getting you or they think you're eccentric? Do you continue to use your Ne or do you try to mix in some other function(s) to meet them half way?

    I agree with the others who said that we call on our Fe. It doesn't come naturally until we are a bit older, though.

    I see many INTPs, like I said before, only valuing their own Dom function - basically, only valuing themselves. Because Ti is introverted and Ne is an intangible perceiving process, NTPs can be extremely introverted and wrapped up in their own heads. The only solution, if you really want to connect with others, is to start seeing the value they bring to the table.

    Many times I sit through my INTP friend's long monologues about whatever miniscule nuance he is currently obsessed with. But when I finally get to say a word in edgewise about a subject I'm interested in that he deems boring, he visibly and noticeably checks out. My thoughts aren't as important as his in those moments. He can't see what value I am bringing to him in that moment. The thing is, it's not supposed to always be about him.

    Find out what other people are interested in and actually listen to them, you might learn something - not only about the subject, but about the person and perhaps even about yourself.

    Try to find your Fe. Try to figure out how to listen and ask appropriate follow up questions that show the speaker that you are listening and learning and that encourage a flow in the conversation. Learn to give feedback when others are talking. If something simply does not interest you, exercise your beautiful Ne and figure out where this subject connects with a larger theme, and steer the conversation that way. If someone is going on and on about a boring football game, find a way to make the concept of football relatable to a larger theme of, let's say, strategy. Have a conversation, not a monologue. If they don't seem to "get" you, use your Ne to foster a connection between what you are saying and what things they have said to make it more understandable to them. Keep rephrasing it until you've been understood.

    In other words, use your Fe to actually give a shit about what someone else is talking about and who they are. Use Ne to relate that back to your own life and experiences. And there is your connection. Human beings aren't all that different from each other, even though it seems like we are worlds apart on the surface.

    And be aware of your body language. It often says more than your words do.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    I disagree with the statement that I need to be around others to use Ne. Absolutely not. I can hermit myself away for months and become more mentally productive and creative than ever. We need external stimuli - not necessarily people.
    Yes. Ne just needs external stimuli, the world beyond myself is filled with way more things than just people.


    I also find that many INTPs, especially, don't see any value beyond their Ti. Being able to think about something in depth is great but if it only remains an internal thought, it is a rather pointless existence. There is beauty and usefulness in every function. Becoming a master of only one really says that you are dense to all the others, which isn't exactly rational, logical or anything to be remotely proud of. I'm glad your view of the world isn't so limited.
    This is an amazing reminder for this site, and sites that focus on typology, specified especially by a type. The irrational arrogance of "being a type" as "objectively" better than others, because of some "priviledged" function(s) preference.

    And, for every good, there's a flip side, so being so deep into one (or a few) function(s) which limits the use of the other functions, makes the person stuck in a rut, which I would think would be a type of dis-ability in navigating the real world.



    I agree with the others who said that we call on our Fe. It doesn't come naturally until we are a bit older, though.
    Yup, again. Fe allows me patience to connect with others, it makes the conversation shift from me to us. Afterall, that is the point of conversing.

    It also allows me to be very acutely aware of when someone is seemingly engaging me, but, I can feel that they've, as you use the word, 'checked out', or are bored. And, my Fe then cannot push them to listen to my side, because it feels utterly shafted. And, it's probably on me, but, even if I can try to engage the Ne to re-try the convo to make it more interesting, the slight I felt at feeling the other's boredom, and them not voicing it, but pretending to care/listen...shuts it down completely. The progress of the convo is halted.

    And be aware of your body language. It often says more than your words do.
    I pick up on body language too.

    Find out what other people are interested in and actually listen to them, you might learn something - not only about the subject, but about the person and perhaps even about yourself.

    Try to find your Fe. Try to figure out how to listen and ask appropriate follow up questions that show the speaker that you are listening and learning and that encourage a flow in the conversation. Learn to give feedback when others are talking. If something simply does not interest you, exercise your beautiful Ne and figure out where this subject connects with a larger theme, and steer the conversation that way. If someone is going on and on about a boring football game, find a way to make the concept of football relatable to a larger theme of, let's say, strategy. Have a conversation, not a monologue. If they don't seem to "get" you, use your Ne to foster a connection between what you are saying and what things they have said to make it more understandable to them. Keep rephrasing it until you've been understood.

    In other words, use your Fe to actually give a shit about what someone else is talking about and who they are. Use Ne to relate that back to your own life and experiences. And there is your connection. Human beings aren't all that different from each other, even though it seems like we are worlds apart on the surface.
    Excellent advice, well put.

    I connect to people through a combination of primarily Ne+Ti+Fe.

    Ne finds the interest, Ti relays the interest (why it makes sense), and Fe tries to sell it in an engaging and individually-tailored package.

  7. #17
    Member Liquid and Flammable's Avatar
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    Connections to S-people? Yes, there are problems. The most strange people are SFs. They are hard to understand, while I can handle the STs. It seems, that I have the natural strategy to find a common ground with them because of their objective view of life. Talking about objective facts (not theoretical), and argue with them can build a connection of respect and affection.

    The SFs are problematic, because the objective discussion don't work well with them.

    Most NJs are good to handle, but some differ from me. They seem to have a narrow view of life for me, so it can be hard to argue with them.

    _________________________

    All in all my natural strategy is argueing and debating facts. Some types can work with that, some can not. Try this to connect with Ts.

    Fe is working analytical, so it's a bit to slow to react correctly (in the moment). So it's correct: ENTPs are annoying in their early years, but becoming better and better, when they grow older.

    You INTPs have harder to work to develop Fe, but you can force yourself better to go through "daily work" (when Si developped), and so you can go for the analytical strategy to have much experiences with people: Doing permanent smalltalk.

    A buddy called it "Empathizing by systemizing", it consists of the analysis and permanent doing of smalltalk (and other social things). Good books about smalltalk may help you. If we ENTP have enough Si to go through them, they help us, but for me it seems, that I preferable invent all the strategys in interactions for myself
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  8. #18
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    It also allows me to be very acutely aware of when someone is seemingly engaging me, but, I can feel that they've, as you use the word, 'checked out', or are bored. And, my Fe then cannot push them to listen to my side, because it feels utterly shafted. And, it's probably on me, but, even if I can try to engage the Ne to re-try the convo to make it more interesting, the slight I felt at feeling the other's boredom, and them not voicing it, but pretending to care/listen...shuts it down completely. The progress of the convo is halted.
    Thanks, Q. I agree with what you wrote about body language. When someone looks disinterested, I also totally shut down. I try to come up with new topics but it depends on how annoyed I am. Usually my annoyance stems from the fact that I listened to all their boring crap and genuinely tried to be interested and it wasn't reciprocated. It always feels like such a waste of time and effort.

    I didn't mention the use of Ti in connecting for a few reasons but I agree that it is an invaluable tool. Especially when it comes to precision, accuracy and refinement of ideas.

  9. #19
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    That was an excellent post, jeno. Definitely gave me some stuff to think about. Ti is definitely a narrowing tool, which can be useful, but it can also give tunnel vision. Sometimes we're aware of that, and sometimes we forget. Sometimes we need an outside observer to help us get out of that Ti rut.
    Something Witty

  10. #20
    Member Liquid and Flammable's Avatar
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    Yeah, that's an often-experienced situation:

    The first minutes of smalltalk, I let them talk about their interests, their energy is flowing, and then... they ask something about me and their body-language switches to desinterest.

    One important aspect of connecting seems to be thinking about self-presentation. Only Ne isn't working, but Ne combined with the adapting of your story to the listener (Fe) works. Ne's seems to be more tolerant, they find the interesting facts between the words, for other types this can be hard.
    ** Upgrading my english **
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