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  1. #121
    Playnerd Timeless's Avatar
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    Conclusion: So many ENTPs, so little time.

  2. #122
    Priestess Of Syrinx Katsuni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    I agree with your agreement. See?
    OH YEAH!? Well I disagree!

    ...No reason. Just 'cause.

    Or at least I disagree that "women are equal" since really it's not 100% so yet. Honestly it's slanted in favour of women at the moment in many ways.

    The culture has changed radically as of the last few decades, now it's considered wrong to hit a woman but it's fine if she hits a guy. That's not exactly whot the term "equality" really means...

    A woman can work in (most) parts of the military, but she can't be drafted.

    That being said though, there are some cases to the contrary as well, where pay isn't as great, or a female is nudged into a 'typical' role in a job, despite being overqualified for it... more than a few times I've known someone who should've been in management and is stuck as a secretary instead.

    But such is how things are, it's a give and take dealie, yeu get some benefits, yeu loose others. Right now we're kind of closer to the "equal" mark than it has been traditionally, but it's still not "truly" equal.

    When people stop regarding gender as having any importance in any way shape or form, other than atheletics, due to differences in physical body structure, then we can claim equality's been reached.



    That being said, true equality will never exist. The most we can achieve realistically, is a balance that's relatively close.

    I dunno, there's alot of different "feminist" definitions, but the one thing that tends to be common among the vast majority of the individuals (individuals! Not the groups!) is that they believe women should have all the benefits they'd had before of being female, but drop all the negative aspects.

    Sooooo yeah, most active feminists really just want to be where the guys were 100 years ago. Because obviously that fixes everything.

    Sigh, people never learn. And I do mean that. PEOPLE. In general, humans as a species do this; they segregate into groups, and then try to showcase "their" group as the "best".

    Best country in the world. Best race. Best gender. Best whotever, it doesn't matter, it's always to try to oneupmanship everyone else.

    I'd absolutely love it if we could just get along and not be asses towards each other for such arbitrary and foolish reasonings as "ZOMG I was born!" "Zomg I was born BETTER!" "LIES!" "WAAAAAAR"... but meh, it's in our very nature.

    Want to see an example? Pick an online MMORPG, any one of them. Warhammer, warcraft, actually, any pvp of any kind, league of legends since the teams swap every single game... as soon as there is *ANY* artificial divide... be it order vs chaos, alliance vs hoarde, red team vs blue team, it doesn't MATTER, they will use it as an excuse to LOATHE the other team for the mere reason that they are ON THE OTHER TEAM O.o

    It doesn't help that we actively encourage this crap in schools from an early age. Girls vs boys teams in gym class, pick people in order or whotever, there's always segregation if there is to be competition...

    Problem is, competition breeds hostility towards "them".

    Meh, stupid people. Some days I'd like to just rescind my membership to the homo sapiens club, but sadly can't do that.

    Sigh, can't live with them, and murder's illegal.

    Oh well.

    Anyways, while I think there's more work that needs to be done on narrowing that gap that's still left, I think it's more a matter of just acting like it isn't there, rather than drawing attention to it at this point. The more yeu poke at it, the more yeu make it linger. If yeu ignore it, and just act as though yeu ARE fully equal, then if done often enough with enough force, people just go with the flow and it becomes true.

    Of course that wouldn't've worked before, it has to get to this stage we're at now to work, so don't think I'm saying that the effort so many put into before was needless. Though... admittedly the bra burning thing was kinda needless. I still don't get that one.

    Whotever.

    I'd rant myself in circles some more, but I just finally got the phone call I've been waiting for telling me where to pick up my package at, they lost my parcel I ordered online, and finally told me where to get it, so I must go do that if I am to.... PLAY DDR O.o

    *Dancedancedance*

    Anyways XD

  3. #123
    Priestess Of Syrinx Katsuni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timeless View Post
    Conclusion: So many ENTPs, so little time.
    Don't yeu mean "So many ENTPs, and not enough ammunition"? ^.^

  4. #124
    Geolectric teslashock's Avatar
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    Katsuni, your post is making me dizzy, and I'm not sure how accurate it is, but you're basically suggesting a double standard. Regardless of how accurate your post is, double standards are inadvertently preached by some feminist ideologies, and that's definitely part of the problem that I see in very radical feminism.

  5. #125
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by teslashock View Post
    Yeah I believe I've actually read excerpts from that book in a women's studies class.

    I'd argue that these problems are not due to the fact that the woman is a woman; they are due to the fact that the woman is from a poor socioeconomic background. We should be fighting socioeconomic gaps more than we should be fighting for woman's rights.
    And the woman can't leave her socioeconomic status because she has to work 80 hrs/week to feed her children, which if she fails to do, she will have the children irrevocably separated from her by our legal system. Notice that we men don't have the same burden placed upon us unless we voluntarily take it upon ourselves. That's institutional oppression.

    A movement going on that seeks to minimize the hardships that single mothers face is fine and dandy (and this kind of feminism is cool, though I'm not sure it should be called feminism). A movement going on that seeks to have females treated as equals is pointless; we've been there and done that already, and we did it quite successfully.
    Is that really the case? Feminism cuts both ways, you know; it's also about the demarginalization of men who take on traditionally feminine roles. Are not men still disdained for taking jobs like nursing, or elementary-age teaching? Doesn't that imply that those jobs are stigmatized, for some reason? Not only that, but why then aren't women subject to the same disrespect for taking those jobs?

    The claim I'm trying to make here is that oppression occurs, but oppression for being female does not, thus a feminist movement that fights against female oppression is redundant.
    The more overt forms of sexist oppression have fortunately faded, true enough. However, much like the vestiges of institutional racism that linger throughout our society, we can't close our eyes to the possibility that this sort of prejudice still exists in insidious forms.

  6. #126
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    ^ Okay, it's absolutely not true that men are somehow exempt from responsibility for the children they father. I don't know where you guys are getting this idea that men can run around fathering hundreds of children and never pay a dime in child support.

    When a woman gets pregnant, the father is legally compelled to contribute financially to the support of the child. The legal system doesn't just ask him, "Hey dude, you feel like chippin' in to help this here little brat you fathered? If not don't worry about it--you're a MAN, we don't expect this kind of responsibility from you!"
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  7. #127
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    I wonder what would happen if the poor left women ditched the kids into care and looked after themselves... how many men would take up the burden.

    In a corproate capcity, women 5 years older than me broke the glass celine to an extent, my age didn't have a lot of didficulties but some, 5 years below me and they didn't notice anything.

    I work for an organisation with as many females in senior management possitions as men.

    It's not full blow top to bottom, but it's a damned site better than it has been. For the first time in HISTORY women have the ability to make chocies to live male free and not be below the poverty line... That's stagering.

    women who work similar hours to their men - get home and have to do 80% of the domestic chores...

    there is a way to go, but seriously ranting on feminist issues in educated places just is wrong these days... take action lower the social gap... it's the more importan thing to do.

    I was asked recently to feed into a project to ry and get a more gender balance within a specific area of a very large organisation. I litend to what the issues appeared to be... then challenged the project team... the areas was awful 1970's style management, dull un rewarding jobs... its attractivness to women wasn't the issue, it was just a hell hole to work... fix the enviroment and how it is managed and women will go... but lets face it women are not nuts enough to work in some crapy envrioment...

  8. #128
    Geolectric teslashock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    And the woman can't leave her socioeconomic status because she has to work 80 hrs/week to feed her children, which if she fails to do, she will have the children irrevocably separated from her by our legal system. Notice that we men don't have the same burden placed upon us unless we voluntarily take it upon ourselves. That's institutional oppression.
    Again, fight poverty, not female oppression. Poverty is the issue here; not being female. Labeling the problem of not being able to take care of your children with a female problem is only a female problem due to biology. It's a problem at all because of socio-economic status, and it has nothing to do with the unequal treatment of women and everything to do with the inability to escape the confines of poverty.

    Is that really the case? Feminism cuts both ways, you know; it's also about the demarginalization of men who take on traditionally feminine roles. Are not men still disdained for taking jobs like nursing, or elementary-age teaching? Doesn't that imply that those jobs are stigmatized, for some reason? Not only that, but why then aren't women subject to the same disrespect for taking those jobs?
    Perhaps some idiots think that men shouldn't be able to have careers in such "female" positions, but are men actually denied of these jobs or just chastised for it? If just the latter, then I don't really see how this is a substantial problem. Society is always going to have dogmatic bullies, but so long as the bullying has no real power, then it's not too much of a problem.

    The more overt forms of sexist oppression have fortunately faded, true enough. However, much like the vestiges of institutional racism that linger throughout our society, we can't close our eyes to the possibility that this sort of prejudice still exists in insidious forms.
    The only real sexism that still lingers are some occasional closed-minded opinions, but I'd argue that these opinions don't actually take away from a woman's opportunities here.

  9. #129
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    ^ Okay, it's absolutely not true that men are somehow exempt from responsibility for the children they father. I don't know where you guys are getting this idea that men can run around fathering hundreds of children and never pay a dime in child support.
    It's called "leaving the state", among other techniques plenty of men use to dodge the child support system.

    When a woman gets pregnant, the father is legally compelled to contribute financially to the support of the child. The legal system doesn't just ask him, "Hey dude, you feel like chippin' in to help this here little brat you fathered? If not don't worry about it--you're a MAN, we don't expect this kind of responsibility from you!"
    Except, that's pretty much what it does. The strongest recompense comes from garnishment of wages. What happens when that man has very little in the way of taxable wages in a given year? Not only that, but allocating tax dollars to go after these guys isn't a big winner in election years.

  10. #130
    Geolectric teslashock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    ^ Okay, it's absolutely not true that men are somehow exempt from responsibility for the children they father. I don't know where you guys are getting this idea that men can run around fathering hundreds of children and never pay a dime in child support.

    When a woman gets pregnant, the father is legally compelled to contribute financially to the support of the child. The legal system doesn't just ask him, "Hey dude, you feel like chippin' in to help this here little brat you fathered? If not don't worry about it--you're a MAN, we don't expect this kind of responsibility from you!"
    I was going to make that point, but then I realized it'd just be countered with "But what if the woman can't prove who the father is? What if daddy disappears? What if some other factor prevents her from pursuing legal isses? Blah blah, woe is her..."

    Better to just stick to the fact that the problem is not one of femininity but one of poverty.

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