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  1. #31
    Senior Member Heart&Brain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CJ99 View Post
    Yeah exactly. An Fi person will remember things based on personal feelings. Like my sis (INFP) alway talks about things we have done together from a feeling view point. Like that was fun or that annoyed me. She remembers word for word everything my mum says that makes her feel sad or annoyed because she had a strong emotional reaction to the situation.
    This is actually not how I experience Ne-Fi (and by analogy Ne-Ti).

    Fi is not something small-talkish like a personal memory of how 'little me' felt in this or that situation. It's as objective and rational as Ti and there's no way around its compelling, wordless force once activated. It's got nothing to do with a subjective narrative about my shifting emotions. It's a value system.

    For example:
    1. Both ENTP Ne+Ti and ENFP Ne+Fi remembers the historians' conclusion that peoples' lives were much more violent in previous centuries than in the 20th. We live in the peaceful times!
    2. The pope laments the decrease in religious morality and links it to a (false) claim of increase in societal violence, blaming the 'secular loss of values' for the (non-existing) increase.
    3. I suppose the ENTP would protest because the claim is not consistent with historical truth. Stupid, untrue stuff must be kicked out to keep the Ti-system reliably truthful in depth.
    4. Using Fi, I'd get angry. The emotion of 'anger' that I feel towards holy lies is not 'personal', it's just the urgent inner alarm bell of the Fi-system making me instantly aware that something universally and objectively unacceptable is going on and I need to attend to it.
    (For an ENFP this 'tending to it' could take time, getting perspective using Ne-links, streamline by Te-analysis the initial warning from Fi's complex valuesystem. And preferably add some Si-details, so I can quote that damn research paper too...!)


    Falsehood is already a pain, but Fi adds a value judgement: people with this false information long for the 'good' past ruled by religious morality. Meaning they'd be pushing today's society to stop the secular progress in favor of the actual cruelty dominating the 'evil old days'. Thus, popes misrepresenting history is not only scientifically incorrect and false. It's ethically wrong and dangerous.

    See? It's got little to do with my changing emotions at different moments of subjective experiences. Actually I rarely share how I feel about my own stuff, only with trusted people. Probably why it's called 'introverted' feeling...


    Oops, dom Ne's changing the thread subject for once?
    Sorry. Back to inferior Si....

  2. #32
    Senior Member Valuable_Money's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    I don't know, is he young ? entps can be sort of high on their behavior reading skills when younger, you know, before they wise the fuck up. We can also be quite rude. -coughs-
    Yeah It sounds a bit like Si or maybe it's just Ti, extracting the theory and trusting it without looking at enough information. Si tends to internalize arguments of authority rather than purely rely on one's experience of things in my hum experience.
    I prefer not to give an opinion without getting the data first hand or get the theory if we're talking about a closed experimental setting of sort.
    He could also be an unhelathy INTP.

    Unhealthy Ti values its own constructs and theoretical views of the world more than actual concrete evidence of the world.
    Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh? wgah'nagl fhtagn

  3. #33
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valuable_Money View Post
    He could also be an unhelathy INTP.

    Unhealthy Ti values its own constructs and theoretical views of the world more than actual concrete evidence of the world.
    He also could be living in a cultural environment that is not particularly conducive to Ne's possibility-raising, and thus compensates to get by (immature Fe)

  4. #34
    Is Willard in Footloose!! CJ99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heart&Brain View Post
    This is actually not how I experience Ne-Fi (and by analogy Ne-Ti).

    Fi is not something small-talkish like a personal memory of how 'little me' felt in this or that situation. It's as objective and rational as Ti and there's no way around its compelling, wordless force once activated. It's got nothing to do with a subjective narrative about my shifting emotions. It's a value system.

    For example:
    1. Both ENTP Ne+Ti and ENFP Ne+Fi remembers the historians' conclusion that peoples' lives were much more violent in previous centuries than in the 20th. We live in the peaceful times!
    2. The pope laments the decrease in religious morality and links it to a (false) claim of increase in societal violence, blaming the 'secular loss of values' for the (non-existing) increase.
    3. I suppose the ENTP would protest because the claim is not consistent with historical truth. Stupid, untrue stuff must be kicked out to keep the Ti-system reliably truthful in depth.
    4. Using Fi, I'd get angry. The emotion of 'anger' that I feel towards holy lies is not 'personal', it's just the urgent inner alarm bell of the Fi-system making me instantly aware that something universally and objectively unacceptable is going on and I need to attend to it.
    (For an ENFP this 'tending to it' could take time, getting perspective using Ne-links, streamline by Te-analysis the initial warning from Fi's complex valuesystem. And preferably add some Si-details, so I can quote that damn research paper too...!)


    Falsehood is already a pain, but Fi adds a value judgement: people with this false information long for the 'good' past ruled by religious morality. Meaning they'd be pushing today's society to stop the secular progress in favor of the actual cruelty dominating the 'evil old days'. Thus, popes misrepresenting history is not only scientifically incorrect and false. It's ethically wrong and dangerous.

    See? It's got little to do with my changing emotions at different moments of subjective experiences. Actually I rarely share how I feel about my own stuff, only with trusted people. Probably why it's called 'introverted' feeling...


    Oops, dom Ne's changing the thread subject for once?
    Sorry. Back to inferior Si....
    Sounds the same as Ti. What I said was just how my sister made it out to be.
    "I'd never die for my beliefs, I might be wrong"

    "Is it not enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe there are fairys at the bottom of it too"

    "Intelligence is being able to hold too opposing views in the mind at the one time without going crazy" - Now all I need to figure out is if I'm intelligent or crazy!

  5. #35
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valuable_Money View Post
    He could also be an unhelathy INTP.

    Unhealthy Ti values its own constructs and theoretical views of the world more than actual concrete evidence of the world.
    some like to say TMI but that's bullshit, there's rarely enough information, this is one of these cases.
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

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