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  1. #291
    Consulting Detective Mr. Sherlock Holmes's Avatar
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    In my experience with an ENTX, they aren't very concerned with truth and objectivity. Even after I researched it, they still argued that soft serve ice-cream was 90% (or sometimes 80%) pigs fat, for example.

  2. #292
    Retired Member Wonkavision's Avatar
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    Well, since my thread was chucked into the graveyard, I guess I'll just have to ressurect THIS one.

    I'll admit, this one's a lot more civil than mine, but at the same time, it's even MORE revealing of how conceited and deluded people can be about their objectivity.
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  3. #293
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    This one has to do with a number of things IMHO.

    This is more determined by brains-how well one evaluates something or objectifies it.

    Also, the ENTP is the least likely of all types to go along with something because the crowd is.

    Most INTPs I know of have a sort of inner hostility...not to say this is a type thing..No. With this in mind, I would imagine the ENTP, who is not angrily frustrated with expressing themselves, yet rather upbeat and calm about things in general, would be plenty capable of evaluating something objectively and with little bias therein.

    But I don't know many INTPs so your question remains a good one.
    Last edited by Lenian; 09-17-2010 at 10:38 PM. Reason: wrong answer

  4. #294
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lenian View Post
    This one has to do with a number of things IMHO.

    This is more determined by brains-how well one evaluates something or objectifies it.

    Also, the ENTP is the least likely of all types to go along with something because the crowd is.

    Most INTPs I know of have a sort of inner hostility...not to say this is a type thing..No. With this in mind, I would imagine the ENTP, who is not angrily frustrated with expressing themselves, yet rather upbeat and calm about things in general, would be plenty capable of evaluating something objectively and with little bias therein.

    But I don't know many INTPs so your question remains a good one.
    I think I'm going to agree with this though, but also reiterate what I said earlier. Ne is objective by it's very nature. All extraverted functions are. That's what makes them extraverted, they focus outwardly on the object rather than subjective, inward ideas. INTPs, being introverts, have an introverted, subjective function as their dominant. So do INTJs and every other introverted type. ENTPs are by definition more objective than INTPs. Seems simple to me.
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  5. #295
    Senior Member Kenneth Almighty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freeeekyyy View Post
    I think I'm going to agree with this though, but also reiterate what I said earlier. Ne is objective by it's very nature. All extraverted functions are. That's what makes them extraverted, they focus outwardly on the object rather than subjective, inward ideas. INTPs, being introverts, have an introverted, subjective function as their dominant. So do INTJs and every other introverted type. ENTPs are by definition more objective than INTPs. Seems simple to me.
    How is Ne objective? It doesn't process information, it simply generates it. That's why you need Ti, to cull the heard so that you can move towards that idea logically. In that way both ENTPs and INTPs would be equal because it's the combination of Ti and Ne that allows both types to scan a situation then see if it's coherent. Ne is haphazard.

    If you're trying to find objectivity you might want to look in the direction of the inferior functions. An ENTPs Fe would cause them to look at all sides of a people issue.

  6. #296
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenneth Almighty View Post
    How is Ne objective? It doesn't process information, it simply generates it. That's why you need Ti, to cull the heard so that you can move towards that idea logically. In that way both ENTPs and INTPs would be equal because it's the combination of Ti and Ne that allows both types to scan a situation then see if it's coherent. Ne is haphazard.

    If you're trying to find objectivity you might want to look in the direction of the inferior functions. An ENTPs Fe would cause them to look at all sides of a people issue.
    You're right, it doesn't judge. It perceives, objectively. Just as Se perceives, so does Ne. At least, according to my understanding of it. I think it might be a difference of definitions here. When I say objective, I only mean it in the simplest definition of the word. It is objective in that it looks at what is outside of it. Ti uses knowledge that it already has gained, either from Ne, or Se, or whatever other means. At least, that's how I've seen it. I'm sure a Ti-dom such as yourself probably has a better idea of how the function operates.
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  7. #297

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    I have lots of INTP and ENTP friends, and there is no clear or definite pattern between their types and objectivity. If you ask to to sort out the people I know in order of objectivity, the most objective ones are those who:

    - have the most life experience
    - are intimately acquainted with their own failings and limitations
    - spend time and energy observing and reflecting themselves and others

    I personally think it has much more to do with discipline and a willingness to evaluate and criticize oneself than any particular function. We're in the realms of character, not personality.

    Asking whether the ENTP or INTP is more objective is like asking whether a chaingun or a sniper rifle is more likely to hit a target. The ENTPs hit a broader area, the INTPs make cleaner and more decisive hits. At the end of the day, what's important is not the weapon, but the skill of the marksman. A skilled chaingunner will do more damage than an inept sniper, and vice versa.

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  8. #298
    Senior Member Kenneth Almighty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freeeekyyy View Post
    You're right, it doesn't judge. It perceives, objectively. Just as Se perceives, so does Ne. At least, according to my understanding of it. I think it might be a difference of definitions here. When I say objective, I only mean it in the simplest definition of the word. It is objective in that it looks at what is outside of it. Ti uses knowledge that it already has gained, either from Ne, or Se, or whatever other means. At least, that's how I've seen it. I'm sure a Ti-dom such as yourself probably has a better idea of how the function operates.
    Believe it or not when I was writing that I was thinking that you could be right :p It's true that Ti would work simply within the framework of experience. It's just that INTPs would be more prone to be logical about it, even though they might not make perceiving their number one priority. The inferior Si of an ENTP would cause it to miss the real life experience needed to get a decent grip of a situation.

    As for Ti-dom I try not to make it a habit, as you have seen. Failing miserably.

  9. #299
    Senior Member Kenneth Almighty's Avatar
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    Or just listen to the ENTP

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenneth Almighty View Post
    Believe it or not when I was writing that I was thinking that you could be right :p It's true that Ti would work simply within the framework of experience. It's just that INTPs would be more prone to be logical about it, even though they might not make perceiving their number one priority. The inferior Si of an ENTP would cause it to miss the real life experience needed to get a decent grip of a situation.

    As for Ti-dom I try not to make it a habit, as you have seen. Failing miserably.
    Something about this kind of reasoning bothers me. Just because INTPs might be more prone to being logical does not necessarily mean that they ARE more logical. Preference cannot and should not be confused with aptitude! I know of an INTP whose Fe is better developed than an ENFJ's, for example.

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