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  1. #21
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I was wondering which was most objective in practice.
    There is no need for a distinction, as objectivity is propery of the mind that manifests through action. If one is objective and is not objective in 'practice' it means that we do not yet see his objectivity. This does not detract from him being objective, however.

    However, it should be noted that the thinking of INTPs is always logically emaculate, however they may not always be proficient in solving problems. As they may not collect information properly due to the malfunctioning perceiving function. (Ne)

    However, should still be more objective than ENPs and INJs who are less likely to make sound decisions. (This factor is more salient because it is through our judging function we come to hold the views that we do, our perceptions are unconscious until we make sense of them with our judging faculty).

    And more objective than the ENTJ because the ENTJ has the same problem as the INTP (lack of perceiving qualities), and Te is less proficient than Ti.
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  2. #22
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    Aw c'mon, it's all over INTPc - just about every other thread is littered with examples of it...

    It's what I meant about the theory and practice - INTP's often don't live up to their potential in many of these situations. A perfectly healthy one who had reached their highest potential would, yes, but I don't think you get many of those around...
    Well said.

    Not to necessarily begrudge the INTP.

  3. #23
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    Well said.

    Not to necessarily begrudge the INTP.
    How does this detract from the objectivity of an INTP? As we have established the aforementioned state of mind leads to a closer affinity with the Thinking faculty.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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  4. #24
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    My reference was to sub's imperfect being - a mind divided from "perfect" Thinking.

    Type was arbitrary; to me, the post seem better-centered on the inequalities that distort positive thought.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    And BlueWing - INTP has the ability to behave as you describe, probably more so than ENTP - the potential I mean, I agree. However, when social anxiety kicks in for the introvert, I think it levels the playing field a bit, as INTP fails to live up to his/her potential quite often in such situations.
    I think what substitute is saying is that while the INTP is able to think it through, he/she may not be able to effectively express that in practice, especially in a debative crowd? Hence the defensiveness sometimes (substitute, are you needling your INTP )? So I'm not really sure what means you'd measure objectivity by if one cannot really observe it.

  6. #26
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    Aw c'mon, it's all over INTPc - just about every other thread is littered with examples of it...

    It's what I meant about the theory and practice - INTP's often don't live up to their potential in many of these situations. A perfectly healthy one who had reached their highest potential would, yes, but I don't think you get many of those around...
    Well, yes, I have seen quite a lot of it at INTPc.
    I believe I've already mentioned my theory that single type communities attract and breed unhealthy people.


    BlueWing, you remind me of my older brother.
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  7. #27
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Yes... add to that the inferior Fe factor with INTP's - when they do start to get defensive and antsy, but seem completely unaware of it even though everyone else can see it, they've lost their objectivity but are convinced they haven't. That's a big handicap.

    I'm trying to think of how inferior Si would produce a handicap if ENTP got antsy, any help?

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    BlueWing, you remind me of my older brother.
    Are you sure you're an INTP?
    Oh God, don't go there... you know what happened at INTPc... LOL
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  8. #28
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aelan View Post
    I think what substitute is saying is that while the INTP is able to think it through, he/she may not be able to effectively express that in practice, especially in a debative crowd? Hence the defensiveness sometimes (substitute, are you needling your INTP )? So I'm not really sure what means you'd measure objectivity by if one cannot really observe it.
    Our inability to see the objective of the INTP does not make him less objective. The INTP, as a radical introvert is unlikely to be affected by the pressure of a debating crowd. As a radical T, would on the contrary, appreciate the pressure due to his intense need to be challenged. What may preclude him from expressing thoughts in a way others can understand is withdrawing too far into the inner world. There he loses grasp of the External perceptions (Ne), or what others may be perceiving.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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  9. #29
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    Yes... add to that the inferior Fe factor with INTP's - when they do start to get defensive and antsy, but seem completely unaware of it even though everyone else can see it, they've lost their objectivity but are convinced they haven't. That's a big handicap.

    Keep in mind that the Fe follows as an entailment of Thinking. The INTP will first do dispassionate reasoning, and then the negative feelings will follow. Therefore this does not detract from objectivity.

    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    start to get defensive and antsy, but seem completely unaware of it even though everyone else can see it,.
    You seem to be confusing appearance for essence. You not noticing the objectivity of an INTP does not imply non-existence thereof. Moreover, for INTJs and ENTPs for example, the F factor is more salient (more likely to influence their thought) because it is higher up the function order.

    The INTP's inferior Fe is unlikely to have much say in his formulation of his opinions because the influence thereof is very weak, as it is the last function.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  10. #30
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    I just realised substitute is an ENTP and we're both headed on the same track here.

    Bluewing, I take your point on logic being immaculate though expression of it isn't.

    proof again of INTP superior logic-ity.

    The Si to ENTP antsy. hmm. Gotta think of that and get back. (My first response was "ENTPs get antsy?", but nevermind) But I'd love to hear an INTP truth of it.

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