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  1. #101
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    You miss the fundamental chaos of the universe. While what you said in the OP may very well be valid, you make a ton of assumptions in there. For one, the universe could simply hit a probability point and blink out of what we call existence (no reason for it not to). You then are in a tough situation: your subject is neither alive nor dead, since both of those categories require an existential view of the universe as currently understood.

    These little bits of chaos, and what they may potentially mean, are what makes our exploration through the universe the process that it is. Just because you have a roadmap, and that map is accurate to within 1 micrometer, doesn't mean that between the time you get the map and the time you go to the area, that you really have any idea of what the place is like. Once again, from "Good Will Hunting" - you've seen pictures of the Sistine Chapel, but do you know what it smells like?

    The data may be objective, but your own experience is entirely that.

  2. #102
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    The reason why I have asked the question about represses thinking is because my Te is quite strong. But in my environment it is almost useless.

    My entire family is F and they always tryed to kill my Te since they have seen it as something foreign and mean.

    Plus the county is so disorganized that planning something is often stupid or at least risky. I mean what I have seen living in my enviroment can be inconceivable for people that live in normal organized western contries.

    I mean ok Te can't be used here properly. (unless it is tightly connected with sensing)
    However my Fi is connected with my Te very tightly so when you kill the Te my Fi will die with it .

    What than causes what is described in the first post. Since Ni is free to do whatever it wants and Te builds up since it can't be used. (at least not properly)
    I mean without strategy games I would gone insane until now.


    Do you guys think that this could be true for me ?

  3. #103
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    What I don't understand about you is that you almost claim to be totally Te, but you're an Ni dom. Where is the Ni in a person who says things like he stopped watching movies because they don't make any sense?

    In regards to your attitude toward emotion, perhaps you should consider this (I am quoting someone from INTJforum, btw, and if they're on this site by a different name, please feel flattered and don't kick my ass ): "Emotion should be dealt rationally, not ignored or denied. Doing otherwise would be like ignoring hunger or the need to sleep."

  4. #104
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    What I don't understand about you is that you almost claim to be totally Te, but you're an Ni dom. Where is the Ni in a person who says things like he stopped watching movies because they don't make any sense?

    In regards to your attitude toward emotion, perhaps you should consider this (I am quoting someone from INTJforum, btw, and if they're on this site by a different name, please feel flattered and don't kick my ass ): "Emotion should be dealt rationally, not ignored or denied. Doing otherwise would be like ignoring hunger or the need to sleep."

    Why do you think that movies are entertaining to Ni ?


    However I don't like them that much exactly because they have logical holes as much they are predictable. As I said in the first post: I am always starting to watch at things from the end. Same applys to movies as well.
    What means that even before I start to watch I am sure that there will be a happy end. And in most cases you can reconstruct few possible outcomes for next 15 minutes of a movie. I simply can't stop this is something that my brain does automaticly.


    Not to menation that all movies that are earthly most likely will not be interesting to Ni in the first place.
    At the same time you can't construct a entire reality in 2 hours. (that are existing in fictional movies). So when a movie ends reality dies (in a way)



    And now look at what you have on the other side.



    The reality.


    Which is far more interesting than movies will ever be for me.

    In reality there are no 2 or 3 nations like in the most movies. Instead you have 200 countries. That are fighting and trading for thousads od types of resources and they are doing it for thousands of years every single day.
    The amount of connections that you can make just on this level is far beyond any fiction.


    Also you have the world that was created by certain laws (geological laws)
    What in the end means that the entire world can be described as puzzle that is reshaping itself for 4.5 billion years now. While it orbits the giant nuclear reactor throughtout that whole time.
    And that reactor is just one of billions of billions of them.


    At the same time you have natural laws that are saying that the way we experiance world is technically false. Since our picture of the worlds is just a product of our senses and our brain.

    (this was just to name some traits that I like about reality )



    This is why most movies don't succeed in intriguing me. Since they are often ful of logical holes and they don't possess the complexity and time spans that I need so much to entertained.

  5. #105
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    As a person I place almost no value on "the" journey. The only thing that matters to me in is the final outcome and everything else is technically irrelevant.
    However my tendency to go after a defintive outcome scares other people and it makes them uncomfortable quite a bit.
    So this thread will probably look like a joke but I am dead serious about this


    I will give a picturesquely example of my behaviour.
    A baby is born and people are happy. Except me, since I keep my head cool. So Instead of being happy I calculate.


    Like this.

    Born 3.12.2005

    Gender female

    Current average life-span of females - 76 years.
    (if it stays the same)

    Estimated time of death 3.12.2081.

    Size of possible error 10%


    Meaning- she will die somewhere between 2076 and 2086.
    The chances that she will die a violent or somehow tragic death are less than 1% and should not be takes as a likely outcome. Even if probablility exists. Which is further reducing the a fact that she is from a stabile family.
    If something special does not happen her first day at school will be in september of of 2010 or 2011.
    Since childern don't usually fair at this stage of lofe it is likely that she will enter a highschool 8 years later form her first day in school.


    Statistically the chances are that she will be of average intelligence and skills. Or at least somewhere near the average.
    If enought time is invested it can be calculated how much money she can possibly earn in life. Also it is would be advisable to calculate possible minimum and maximum to add flexibility the calculation. The chances of strong deviations from standard are possbible but statistical observations of current population shows that they don't happen to that many individuals.


    Education and talents - unkown at this stage
    However it is unlikely that they will make the child to be that much special that the child wil be much more succesful than children of her age. Gender suggests that it is more likely that she will take a more people oriented carrer.

    Sexual pertners during life -time between 3 and 6
    Number of childern 2 plus 1or2 aborted if current social trends continue.
    Maximum number of childern that she can give birth - Unknown.



    This is where i will stop since I think that everybody got my point. In realty I would be much more concrete since I would have a concrete person to analyse. Also I would place much more variables which I didn't place here since I don't want my example to be too complicated. Plus I would make a few "simulations" as well.


    Basicly I define all major traits and variables at the start. So the journey is something that siimply has to happen to prove me right or wrong. (and nothing more). But generally speaking I am often quite correct about things.
    Since most things are nothing more than a continuation of events from past mixed with statistical odds.



    NPs usually have the bigges problems with this since they can comprehend my logic. But they have a huge need to explore and need to wonder. I basicly kill them when I show them some barrier in their life that is like 10 years ahead. (especially NFPs) Since I place their entire exploring thing in the context of space and time and show them how much time they have left. (or something)

    SJs - either think you are rude or feel uncomfortabe since they can see your J logic which they like at work. But they feel so naked around you. I tend to think that NFJ are similar to SJs when it comes to this.


    While SPs just say "cool" and walk away or they will try to convince that you need profesional help.


    I could say much more but I will leave that for a thread. Instead I will just get to the point.


    Why my thought process / approach makes people so uncomfortabe ?
    I mean because of this I often don't show people who I am. Since people seem to be uncomfortable with idea that things can be that well summarized.

    Basicly this is not about being correct or not this is about approach towards reality.



    More info at post 29.

    To me this sounds completely obsessive, infact it sounds a little like asbergers syndrome...that is my opinion.
    All the "stuff" in the middle is what shapes us as individuals and determines our outcomes...
    I know mine (so far)would have been inconcievable, you most certainly would have been wrong

    "I spent most of my money on fast cars, women and gambling, the rest i just squandered"

  6. #106
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    The reason why I left the forum was that I needed time for reflect upon data gathered here. Plus I have alost of stuff to do.


    The thing is that I have realized what is my problem. It is not really this simply but this is the core.


    My main problem was/is in my environment.


    My mother wants me to be NFP
    My father wants me to be SF
    My grandparents wanted me to be STP
    My society wants me to be STJ
    My college wants me to be NTP


    So as you can see it is very hard to satisfy everybody in this case. Especially if you are neither of that.

    When I was kid I rejected this entire game altogather. However with time I felt the need to integrate more into my environment. (NTJ part was telling me that.)

    But the only way to make everybody happy is by not having a clear personality. (so I didn't have one)
    However with time it was harder and harder to fit in. Because of this I was solving the problem with extra introversion. What made a crackpot out of me.What led to too much gaming what boosted my NTJ side. So it has become even harder to get along with people at this point.
    What means that I ended with alot of introversion and lot of NTJs.


    But then introversion started to eat NTJness as well pushing me even more toward being a plant. Even if that NTJ part remained untouched beneath the skin. And then by coicidance I ended up here.



    The thing is that my parents are quite sponatneous and easygoing people so even in this state of mind I had the capacity to please them. So status quo lasted for years.


    However I have changed alot lately since I have figured out the problem.
    Since I don't have too much Fi which I did not have the conditions develope or Si that would make permanent impact on me I have returned back to a state which I had before I started "getting along" project 10 years ago. The only thing is that extra NTJness stayed and I have more life experiance.


    I would even go far enough and say that the person that you all knew does not exist anymore. Which is because I have totally changed my approach in its core. Before I were trying to find a subtle way to get along while I was claiming that I am antisocial. While today I am more forceful and harsh and claim that I am ok guy. (what technically is true)


    The thing is that only controling, unsponatneous and quite unconventional behaviour is what can entertain my NTJ part on the long run. What in the end creates extroversion. By this I am refering to clean and unfaked exstroversion in all of its forms.



    I hope that this makes some sense to you guys. Since this is the conclusion of all those "What is wrong with me ?" threads.

  7. #107
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    Born 3.12.2005

    Gender female

    Current average life-span of females - 76 years.
    (if it stays the same)

    Estimated time of death 3.12.2081.

    Size of possible error 10%


    Meaning- she will die somewhere between 2076 and 2086.
    The chances that she will die a violent or somehow tragic death are less than 1% and should not be takes as a likely outcome. Even if probablility exists. Which is further reducing the a fact that she is from a stabile family.
    If something special does not happen her first day at school will be in september of of 2010 or 2011.
    Since childern don't usually fair at this stage of lofe it is likely that she will enter a highschool 8 years later form her first day in school.


    Statistically the chances are that she will be of average intelligence and skills. Or at least somewhere near the average.
    If enought time is invested it can be calculated how much money she can possibly earn in life. Also it is would be advisable to calculate possible minimum and maximum to add flexibility the calculation. The chances of strong deviations from standard are possbible but statistical observations of current population shows that they don't happen to that many individuals.


    Education and talents - unkown at this stage
    However it is unlikely that they will make the child to be that much special that the child wil be much more succesful than children of her age. Gender suggests that it is more likely that she will take a more people oriented carrer.

    Sexual pertners during life -time between 3 and 6
    Number of childern 2 plus 1or2 aborted if current social trends continue.
    Maximum number of childern that she can give birth - Unknown.
    I will be honest with you man, I just pictured all that info appearing inside the visor of a cyborg. I mean I get your logic, but coldly analyzing a person's entire fucking life when they're born is just... weird.
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  8. #108
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    As the poster above says "this is wierd" . Well it is wierd but non the less this is the core of how I function.

    The thing is that I am hidding this trait for quite some time now. Also you can say the same for a number of personality traits I possess. Basicly this is what I am doing since my birth. Sometimes more sometimes less but I am doing it all the time.


    However lately I have come to some conclussions. Which is that I will never fit in my environment. Also I have to realized that I don't have to really fit in to interact with it.


    My entire life someone someone is ofering me to be one of the guys (S) or they ofer me the world of countless ideas and beauty (NP). But the fact that I am neither of that. Since I don't live here and now life but I don't have the... I will call it the artistic soul of an NP since my N and J is quite strong. What then creates very strong Ni. (or it is the other way around)


    Also if you look at the list of people with which I have had developed at least some level of connection at some point something very obvious shows up.

    3xENTP
    3xENFP
    2xESTP
    2xINTP
    1xISTP
    1xESFP

    So as you can see there is alot of Ps in the list. For some I am not sure about first 3 letters but I am pretty sure they are all Ps.
    Which is because my environment lacks Jness. Plus I tend not to get along with SJs. While NJ are trully in short supply over here.


    However hanging with Ps can be unsatisfing experinace for me. Since I am not really one of them. Actually when I took my first MBTI test (which I have discovered by accident). My J was clearly my weakest letter. But with more research/thinking about it, it become obvious that I am quite a J and that I am simply using intuition to fit into my environment.
    The fact that both of my parents are artistic FPs also didn't help me that much in life either. Which is because they have serious problems with my Te. (from the day one)


    Also my society does not like to use Te that much. For example my exams can be postponed even up to 3 times. Or they give me "fake" exam dates or they provide me the date of a exam the day before the exam. etc.
    (and yet they wonder why 90% of the students fail a year)
    Actully in education system there is nothing but learning of facts with some tasks where you have to have to figure out something. But implementation or thinking about consequences are technically on pure zero.
    Basicly the entire society is like this and no one has the guts to admit that.
    Even if examples are countless. Which would not be a problem if we overlook the fact that this leads to self-destruction.


    So I have turned to uber introversion. To hide my nature and to reduce the awkvardness. I don't know how many times I could have said something but I didn't. Especially since being quiet = getting along with people in my case for the most part.


    But to make things worse. I have a total asimetry in T/F area. Even tests are showing it pretty clearly since I have never scored T below 80 %.
    Someone could even say that I am in typical NT denial when it comes to this.
    Even I wasn't trully sure about this since I am faking some introversion so why not thinking as well . But recently I have realized that tests are trully correct because a few days ago my grandmother died. What didn't have any emotional impact on me. I mean trully nothing: 0 tears 0 gref.


    I was seeing her almost every day since my birth and ever took care of her too some degree. But my Ni was telling me that this will be the outcome from since I was kid. For me this was simply a sealed deal from the start.
    But even in general I am not empathic. (but I am not trully sadistic either)
    From experance I know that I can scare people, especially women. So I guess I will just have to scare them sometimes. What happened a few times already on this site. I mean online I am not that bad since there is not bodylanguage and non verbal communication in foruming.


    Also the reason why I have started the ENFP/ENFJ thread is because this two are the most likely types to help me balacing out some things.
    Which is because I am attracted to them and their so called "soft core" while they are skillful with people and personal stuff. So actually what I was trying to get in that thread are some of their thought about thick skin.



    So what is this all about ?

    I have started removing my introversion lately since it become obvious that I will waste my life and my talents completly if I stay in hidding. I have tryed to find a more subtle solutions (especially on this site). But the truth is I am simply not very subtle, spontaneous or emotional person in general. What means that my overdeloped side will become more obvious.


    What means that if you feel attacked or threatend by my post(s) that will be because I was just being myself. However this does not mean that I will just go around the forum hurting people and causing major problems.


    Just saying.

  9. #109
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    What I don't understand about you is that you almost claim to be totally Te, but you're an Ni dom. Where is the Ni in a person who says things like he stopped watching movies because they don't make any sense?

    I have already answered you too this post but I think I have another and better answer. Even if it is not in contradiction with the first one.

    When I take MBTI I will get something like 90% J. What is unusually high.
    But what is opposite from that ? Perciving.
    However when you are watching movies you are perciving them. What means that it is quite likely that I will get bored after a while.



    Ni as a symbol stands for Introverted intuition. Which means that my main perception is in my head. Hidden from everybody else. Instead of being out there watching the world. The thing that most movies have logical holes has almost nothing to do with me disliking them.


    Also there is another problem. I am quite strong TJ. What means that I like organizing and planning things. What movies simply can't provide by definition.
    This is why I really like computer games. Since they allow me to judge and call the shots. For example leading some faction in a war that is happening far into the future will be far more entertaining for me than watching a SF movie that is about something like that. Not to menation that Ni gets much more active in video games than in watching movies. There is simply much more variables in games.


    I mean ok, watching moves form time to time is entertaining especially if they are good. But the problem is that Ni is fairly good in predicting stuff. Especially since most movies not are that much complex. Plus my Te/TJ part of me has nothing to do. So if my two main functions are unsatified in this activity there will be no real need to activate my feeling side. What means that I am not that much likely to have fun watching movies.


    My father quite often got annoyed with me because if this. Since instead of watching a movie I watched him and other people around trying to see how this activity is effecting them. What was often much more interesting to me than a movie itself. The thing is that Ni as a dominant function is trying to understand the basic principles of how everything works. But movies for the most part don't provide that. On the other hand I like documentries quite bit.

    Same is with books, I really dislike novels but really enjoy... I will call them theoretical books.



    I hope that this makes some sense to you.

  10. #110
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    I will be honest with you man, I just pictured all that info appearing inside the visor of a cyborg. I mean I get your logic, but coldly analyzing a person's entire fucking life when they're born is just... weird.

    Why is it weird? You could find these statistics anywhere. He just happened to apply them to a specific situation. He likes documentaries so he's not that weird.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

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