[NT] Elegant NTs

[INTPness]

I think NT's are classy and eloquent when they concern themselves with (and make a priority of) things like harmony and being a team-player. When we get all wrapped up in "being right" and always coming back over the top of someone (which we are very prone to do without even realizing we are doing it), it is in those times that we are moving away from class and eloquence.

We have good solutions to problems. We think things out very well. We can be very good at whatever we set out to do. That's all fine, but I think it's when we humble ourselves and "include others" (this is very broad) that we then have class. Start a business that you're passionate about - not just for your own pathetic gain that you can't even take with you when you leave this place, but start it for the employees that you will treat right and pay well. Start it for the customers who will love your product and your service, who will see you as an organization who does things the right way.

Another example in my personal life (and perhaps it's common with INTP's) is let's say a friend is throwing a birthday party and wants me to come. I really don't want to go because there will be lots of people and interaction and it all just seems like a big headache to me. But, I've learned that situations like this aren't about "me" and my being inconvenienced. They are about a friend who genuinely wants me to be at his/her birthday party. Me being there is important to them. I don't always make it to these events, but I've begun to see the importance of stepping out of my own head and being giving of myself and my time.

In short, I think we move closer to class and eloquence in moments where we lose our own selfish ambitions and "what's in it for me attitude". When we give of our time and give of ourselves (while still using our strengths and being true to who we are), that's classy.

 

[ThatGirl]

I think NT's are classy and eloquent when they concern themselves with (and make a priority of) things like harmony and being a team-player. When we get all wrapped up in "being right" and always coming back over the top of someone (which we are very prone to do without even realizing we are doing it), it is in those times that we are moving away from class and eloquence.

We have good solutions to problems. We think things out very well. We can be very good at whatever we set out to do. That's all fine, but I think it's when we humble ourselves and "include others" (this is very broad) that we then have class. Start a business that you're passionate about - not just for your own pathetic gain that you can't even take with you when you leave this place, but start it for the employees that you will treat right and pay well. Start it for the customers who will love your product and your service, who will see you as an organization who does things the right way.

Another example in my personal life (and perhaps it's common with INTP's) is let's say a friend is throwing a birthday party and wants me to come. I really don't want to go because there will be lots of people and interaction and it all just seems like a big headache to me. But, I've learned that situations like this aren't about "me" and my being inconvenienced. They are about a friend who genuinely wants me to be at his/her birthday party. Me being there is important to them. I don't always make it to these events, but I've begun to see the importance of stepping out of my own head and being giving of myself and my time.

In short, I think we move closer to class and eloquence in moments where we lose our own selfish ambitions and "what's in it for me attitude". When we give of our time and give of ourselves (while still using our strengths and being true to who we are), that's classy.

I would generally agree with this, however I don't necessarily believe that doing less self centered acts is as important as it seems. I will never be someone that I am not. My goals and personal pursuits are important to me. I don't appreciate people being demanding of my time.

The bolded portion is mostly the key. I believe it is a sign of strength and confidence to be able to stand your ground and represent yourself, but doing so in a way that is not at the expense of others. Having nothing to prove, and still forging ahead.

For me, I reclaimed my inner classiness by learning to incorporate creative solutions in my pursuits, rather than bull dozing over any one and anything. The confidence to know that one way or another, I will accomplish my goals.

Ghetto comes from the instinctual need to survive or belong (insecurity). When we cut down others to advance our position, giving up our standards to be accepted by the majority, or being resistant to productivity and change for the sake of proving our point.

 

[Goodewitch]

Yes, Ive examples of NT's I know personally cutting suave, elegant verbally precise and well crafted moves across boardrooms and functions and gatherings of the 'important ' people and movers and shakers.
Inevitably, their tinkling little softly spoken voices , grated on me and being as hollow and false as fake crystal goblets, and all without exception were intellectual snobs who had very little depth going on in their lives, despite their perfectly interior designed apartments and art on the wall.
Elegant can be very cold,.. I have examples of it , yes,... but none that have ever impressed me as anything but empty style over substance.
G. x

 

[Bri]

I think I'm too practical to bother with elegance most of the time. I'd rather have someone listen to my idea than ignore me because they misinterpret my tone/choice of language as pretension.

 

[Geoff]

You'll find this "elegance" in NTJs much more readily than in NTPs. NTJs will bother with wearing Armani suits to become CEOs of huge corporations. NTPs will show up to work pantsless and ruin their chances at ever finding their way to the top.

I dont quite see this elegance. INTJs, for example, are probably (regrettably for them) the most socially awkward type. i think it is because they are so far from Fi/Fe. They find it difficult to strike up the right balance in social situations and thus can be... inelegant.

 

[Bri]

They find it difficult to strike up the right balance in social situations and thus can be... inelegant.

*nod* I tried to explain to my ESFJ mom how I sometimes have to think about my facial expression and determine if it's the correct one for a given situation. She thought I was completely bonkers.

 

[Geoff]

*nod* I tried to explain to my ESFJ mom how I sometimes have to think about my facial expression and determine if it's the correct one for a given situation. She thought I was completely bonkers.

I worked with an INTJ for years. We were both forced to "network" with strangers at enforced social events.. drinks receptions and the like. he put it like this... "why is it when I walk up to someone they look at me like I have antenna growing out of my head?"

 

[thisGuy]

Lately I have been very disappointed in the reputation of NTs (ENTJs to be specific).

NT is not about being immature. It most certainly is not being mentally retarded. Last I heard, they almost never run in packs.

Capability, independence, confidence, knowledge and wisdom. These are all skills that are readily available to NTs.

Before anyone spouts off, let me say that I am NOT saying other types aren't capable of this.

What I am looking for are moments of NT elegance. Where intellect and strategy trump immaturity and lack of sophistication. Where people actually did shit, made shit happen. NTs who don't believe being sloppy and unrefined is cool. NTs with respect.

Got anything?

what you are talking about comes so easily to NTs that they (NTPs anyway) usually go a step beyond and not give sophistication as much merit as you are doing here...until the need arises

 

[Blank]

*nod* I tried to explain to my ESFJ mom how I sometimes have to think about my facial expression and determine if it's the correct one for a given situation. She thought I was completely bonkers.

Ahahahaha! Wooow...

Well, at least you are three steps ahead of me, for I just remain blank and expressionless.

 

[antigone girl]

I thought she wasn't referring to external elegance (clothing, etc.), but more to "internal" elegance: eloquence, coherence of opinions, cultural refinment basically.

Anyway, speaking for myself, I kind of hate the concept of elegance and refinement in clothing. The (extremely rare) times I've dressed up with "business suits" (ugh) for a peculiar event (barring sporting events - dressing up in a nice sporting suit is uber cool) I've felt like I was selling my soul. I think I can do a good job even without conforming to some stupid external standard of looks.

idk, pretty silly generalization to say ENTPS go around pantsless and have no style. The ENTPS I know are dapper dons.

 

[Fluffywolf]

Capability, independence, confidence, knowledge and wisdom. These are all skills that are readily available to NTs.

I have all of that, but elegancy is in the eye of the beholder. So I doubt I have any of that though.

 

[ZPowers]

I don't know how elegant I am per se, especially privately, but in public I take up the affectations of elegance. I take the time to dress myself well, matching colors, etc. Virtually every coat I own is some kind of blazer, often very nice ones. I also have an affinity for vests and button up shirts and an aversion to shorts. I also strongly avoid sneakers (I don't wear dress shoes everyday, in fact, I wear one of two pairs of shoes every day depending on what else I'm wearing, generally some form of moderately nice slip-on). I like speaking elegantly, precisely, and with varied diction, in part because I think the English language has a lot to offer. It's almost absurd, I often unconsciously extend my ring and little finger when I drink, and always hold martini glasses and wine glasses by the stem (which is probably something I gleaned from my dad, who always told me to do this because it's the correct way to drink from any glass with a stem). I almost always hold doors and allow people (regardless of gender/attraction) to enter before me if they're right behind me, etc. Being an avid reader with a keen interest in politics and philosophy might also be a boon.

I don't know if I'm genuinely elegant or if I just sort of unknowingly aspire to or adore it and take actions to match it to create a dignity that isn't totally natural to me.

That said, once you get to know me, while many of these quirks remain, but I ain't exactly James Bond or Jackie O.

 

[Fluffywolf]

I think my elegance is limited to practicality.

If it's to win over customers, I can present myself elegantly, no probs. But I don't wear a suit because I don't feel confident without one. I can feel confident in a lot of clothing. Maybe not crossdressing, or leather suits with masks. But any relatively normal sort of clothing would do.

So, basicly, I am not elegant, unless I have ulterior motives and something to gain.

 

[burymecloser]

idk, pretty silly generalization to say ENTPS go around pantsless and have no style. The ENTPS I know are dapper dons.

Whatever, it's totally true. All NTPs are pantsless. Always.

 

[ZPowers]

Whatever, it's totally true. All NTPs are pantsless. Always.

It was originally a sly way for us to identify one another, but I guess you yokels are finally catching on. I guess we'll have to change up.

Whattaya think, guys? Tuxedo shirts?

Feather boas?

"NTP" tattoos on our foreheads?

I'm cool with anything that isn't too garrish. Like Uggs.

 

[thisGuy]

You'll find this "elegance" in NTJs much more readily than in NTPs. NTJs will bother with wearing Armani suits to become CEOs of huge corporations. NTPs will show up to work pantsless and ruin their chances at ever finding their way to the top.

NTPs wont wear the suit cuz of the symbolism that goes with it. if in their minds, the suit makes them look good and the situation requires a professional outlook, the NTPs would wear it

that said, at the workplace, we dont give a fuck about how we look, its about how we work.

i almost dare my boss to give me anything less than an excellent. i dont give a fuck about sucking up to him or wearing a freakin suit or putting up my accomplishments on the wall...i do give a shit about the work i was hired to do. itll be second to none. how does it matter if i do it wearing flip-flops or $200 dress shoes

 

[thisGuy]

Lately I have been very disappointed in the reputation of NTs (ENTJs to be specific).

NT is not about being immature. It most certainly is not being mentally retarded. Last I heard, they almost never run in packs.

Capability, independence, confidence, knowledge and wisdom. These are all skills that are readily available to NTs.

Before anyone spouts off, let me say that I am NOT saying other types aren't capable of this.

What I am looking for are moments of NT elegance. Where intellect and strategy trump immaturity and lack of sophistication. Where people actually did shit, made shit happen. NTs who don't believe being sloppy and unrefined is cool. NTs with respect.

Got anything?

Capability, independence, confidence, knowledge and wisdom. These are all skills that are readily available to NTs.

why do you judge only based on these? yeah, i have them. yes, i can pull any of these off anytime i want. why do i have to?

all these qualities must have a deeper foundation rather than just to look elegant. you might be wearing a $10000 dinner jacket and might be able to impress the crowd with a quote from voltaire but all that is gonna go down the shitter when the the 10th course of the meal is served and not knowing which fork to use, you become lost and unsure of yourself.

that said, i agree with you in that apathy will be the fall of mankind.

 

[durentu]

Elegance is refusal - Coco Channel

She said that elegance wasn't about some elaborate fanciful thing. It's really about simplicity. How many items can you removed before you loose the essence? She used to suggest dressing up, then before going out the door, look in the mirror and remove one item.

In japanese culture, the concept of wabi sabi is interesting. Or the concept of shibumi or shibui. That the basic aesthetic is really asymmetrical because nature is in essence asymmetrical.

In the Ikea designs, there is a notion of elegance. Simple effective looks.

In ecological coding in software engineering - there is the concept of elegant code whereby the code is simple enough to be effective yet small. In ecological coding, the performance of the code is small and without excess that it reduces the power requirement of the system, therefore reducing the carbon footprint.

Aquaponics is elegant because there is very little that in added or wasted from the system. The water from the fish tank feed the plants and the plants purify the water back into the fish tank. Different stages are filled with bacteria to help optimize the cycle. All you need to do it check on it and eat. No chemicals, pesticides etc

There is also mental elegance. While the body is said to consume 100W of energy, the brain consumes 20-25W of energy. Filling your mind with worries and analysis etc takes away from effective thinking and engagement in life. Depression is inefficient and that's why it doesn't feel good. Things that are efficient feel good like sex and sugar. An in general reducing chaos into a perspective or some sort of order feels good and it's efficient: elegant.

There is elegance in warfare. There is elegance in relationships. In math, effort, movements etc.

There's elegance in work, play and love. And there's elegance in every MBTI type. No MBTI has a monopoly or advantage in elegance.

There's also a fundamental problem in affirming what MBTI is suppose to be without regard to it's intended purpose and original definition which is exacerbated by defending an ungrounded belief about it. To do so would incorrectly elevate MBTI into a religion. And this usually creates wars among it's sects, namely the different types as we see from time to time.

 

[durentu]

that said, i agree with you in that apathy will be the fall of mankind.

Apathy is perhaps only the next step.
:

Alexander Fraser Tytler - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[thisGuy]

if we were still the same society as we were 200 years ago, i would agree.

but the advancement in technology and human awareness (literacy) have been so great in the past 100 years that unless one single event takes us back to stoneage (nuclear war), i doubt we'll be going through degeneration. individually? perhaps. but as a race, nah...we have come way to far for that.

i think the next big thing will be quantum physics stuff which will probably lead to metaphysics. metaphysics will probably play a role in human evolution respective to development of the human brain in that we should be able to use the electric signals from the brain to talk to one another...telepathy, as it is called today.