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  1. #31
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I can't do the purely emotive/emotional support/make your feelings better stuff that some other people can seemingly do so well.
    This is what makes us INTPs (i.e. Jung) so good at this when we get our system down. It is nonlinear solution finding compared to most types. We are rare and a limited commodity irl. They can find bucketfuls of other types that will cry with them and feel their pain.

    Congruent and mature minded INTP magicians are like gold in these situations. Mirroring is mostly unnecessary except on more subtle levels. Mapping the process is also more intellectually stimulating for the INTP while this is happening.
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Spamtar - a strange combination of boorish drunkeness and erudite discussions, or what I call "an Irish academic"

  2. #32
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spamtar View Post
    This is what makes us INTPs (i.e. Jung) so good at this when we get our system down. It is nonlinear solution finding compared to most types. We are rare and a limited commodity irl. They can find bucketfuls of other types that will cry with them and feel their pain.
    lol! Way to spin that puppy around and find the silver lining!

    No, you're right, honestly. It's a good insight. And I do have lots of people come to me when they want advice or just another pair of eyes -- they know what I can give and try not to expect the other stuff and go elsewhere for it.

    To give you something else to chew on, though, I think it's different to some degree for guys. That sort of approach is within typical western social parameters for male interaction. As a woman, I feel pressure sometimes to do something I can't do easily... a lot of women (more than men) seem skilled at purely emotive comforting, and I'm aware of how much I stick out because I have a more detached approach. Even at my best level of emoting, I can't equal some other women when they emote; it's just not me.

    People seem to expect women to be more emotive and assume they don't care as much if they don't emote well. So there is more pressure there to conform than what you might perhaps experience.

    Mapping the process is also more intellectually stimulating for the INTP while this is happening.
    yeah, I generally do not share my ongoing internal "meta-ing" of the situation as it unfolds... People would think i didn't care. But the whole time I'm analyzing the situation as it unfolds and learning from it.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #33
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    But the whole time I'm analyzing the situation as it unfolds and learning from it.
    What our eyes see, can not be unseen.

    And Spamtar, great posts. And pretty solid advice. But it's like Jennifer said. It's when people, who are emotionally bust, need to hear anything that can lift them up again. Not neccesarily 'the right thing'. Like all they need is an arm around them. It's those situations I just feel ill equipped for. And when I deal with it the INTP way. Offer them whatever advice I deem relative to the subject and say what I believe they should hear. When I do that, I've been told to be cold, uncaring. Which isn't true, but I didn't do what was expected of me.

    In turn, all I can do is just shrug it off. Hey, I said and done what I thought was right. And if that's not appreciated, so be it.

    For the record, some people can deal with INTP support better than other people. In particular I'm speaking about some experiences with an ESFJ in my life in which this issue exists, 'the lack of showing physical compassion'. Whilest I've known INFJ's that don't have a problem with the INTP approach to comfort.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  4. #34
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    People seem to expect women to be more emotive and assume they don't care as much if they don't emote well. So there is more pressure there to conform than what you might perhaps experience.
    Yes I can notice the sexual stereotype could create additional hurdle for INTP women in the western world. Major congruency in outwardly character disposition might be key (i.e. similar to Sigourney Weaver although she does not seem INTP nevertheless sets the stage for managing expectations of gushiness where there is little gush to be found)

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    For the record, some people can deal with INTP support better than other people. In particular I'm speaking about some experiences with an ESFJ in my life in which this issue exists, 'the lack of showing physical compassion'. Whilest I've known INFJ's that don't have a problem with the INTP approach to comfort.
    This is true and sometimes we serve the situation better to forgo the responsibility (i.e. hide). Other times its best to make the subject think they were the ones who solved there own problem (and actually incorporate their skills in the solution finding process). And then there is what I call hit it and quit it where I give them the solution and leave with no expectation to give them the opportunity to figure it out on their own). The more we know about the subjects disposition (i.e. MBIT typing them) is often more important than what we know of their problem. Maybe if we use a Vagrantforce style quick typing test questions on the subject, if we didn't know already, this would help us make the process more efficient.
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Spamtar - a strange combination of boorish drunkeness and erudite discussions, or what I call "an Irish academic"

  5. #35
    Senior Member milkyway2's Avatar
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    Hate comforting people. Hate being comforted.

  6. #36
    Senior Member MiasmaResonance's Avatar
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    "Most F types need open ears to vent to (without solutions) and sympathy time first before they will be able to shift their focus to the solution. Offering the solution too quickly will just give them one more thing to be upset about, rather than alleviating the burden."

    Damn..am I an F or something? Shadow typing as of late, perhaps? Either way, I can relate to this. For now, I mean. It's not something I always was. I guess it could be my shadow coming out in times of stress, I don't know..

    Anyway, back to the point. As for comforting, I usually must do it insincerely. I do not WANT to, but I find it hard to care. Empathy was never my strong suit. However, when I DO care about not only the situation, but the person, and want to comfort, I try my best given the circumstances.
    "A spill at the plant increased the phosphates in the lake and produced a scum of algae so thick that the swamp smell filled the air, infiltrating the genteel mansions. Debutantes cried over the misfortune of coming out in a season everyone would remember for its bad smell."

  7. #37
    Pose! Salt n' pepper's Avatar
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    The INTP I know is much better with comforting people than I am. I get really impatient after a few rounds and kind of agitated if we don't come to a solution/conclusion. Especially if I'm expected to talk. Even with people I care about, cause my comforting is giving you a solution to your problem. BUT, my INTP seems so patient and listens intently and says appropriate things. I'm guessing he's not emotionally engaged and sort of mentally tuned out, just responding according to what makes sense to say at the moment. But whether or not he's pretending to listen, I think it's enough to "feel comforted". Cause people seem to come back for more....

  8. #38
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    Post Basic tips for comforting

    How to comfort someone... Don't forget to make context clear to other people. If you do forget, this may lead to them not letting you define context because they're fixated on an idea. In short, make sure the person you're comforting knows the context of your attempt. (I.E. That you're trying to help, and not saying that they're incapable.) Another point, a sphere on a slope will invariably roll. Depending on how much you know about a person's past, or their personality, reactions will almost invariably occur (Almost invariably, because who's to say the ball isn't filled with Nitro?) Use this to predict reactions so you don't find yourself confused by what they're saying or doing. I don't really think I can come up with more than this offhand, but I hope this helps.
    INTP,
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  9. #39
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    To the OP:

    I do not do emotional comforting very well or willingly. It has nothing to do with whether I can empathize with the person's particular situation. If it is someone close to me, it is enough that they are in distress. Even if the reason is "stupid" or incomprehensible to me, the distress is real. The best I can usually do is simply to be with them; sit next to them, let them lean on my shoulder (literally) if they seem to want it, listen to them if they choose to talk.

    On the other hand, I don't even have to be close to someone for my mind to engage with their problem immediately. This seems to be an almost involuntary response to my noticing a Problem that Needs Solving, especially one I think I could solve, or that poses an interesting challenge. If I care about the person, I will hold my thoughts until they seem more receptive. For others, I will usually move on unless they ask for advice.

    In terms of genuine empathy, I find I often care about people's problems more in the abstract or general case, then in regard to a specific person. This is often because, in the specific situation, I know more information and can see how the problem might be of the person's own doing. For example, I might feel almost personally outraged at the plight of homeowners losing their homes to forclosure, but have limited sympathy for a foreclosed neighbor who (in my estimation) made very poor financial decisions.

  10. #40

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    When other people express remorse over things I wouldn't consider an issue, it's usually because I've already decided how I would solve the problem if it were mine. That's easy, since solving other people's problems is so much fun.

    It's raw remorse I have trouble with. My kid has always had a strong interest in animals...he's had pets of every description, from birds to fish to snakes and on and on. When he was around 9 he got a King Snake that needed to be fed live mice. He never had a problem feeding it, but occasionally we'd get a feeder mouse that was too ornery for the snake to handle. Since flushing it down the toilet was not an option, my son would keep the mice as pets. Of course, they flourished under his care and soon he had sixteen aquariums full of mice in his room. He was highly attentive to them and appeared to become fascinated with their social behavior, particularly the breeding aspects. eventually he started craving more diversity than plain old white mice could provide, so I made him a deal...I'd swap him all his white mice except 1 aquarium full to be used as feeders for the snake in exchange for two 'fancy' mice of his choosing and this book about mice he would sit on the floor reading every time we went to the pet shop.

    He went for it, we took 54 white mice to the pet shop and exchanged them for 2 'fancy' mice and the book, and the whole thing repeated itself, only this time in a variety of beautiful and exotic coat colors.

    The female of this new pair of mice became my son's pride and joy. To me they were all just mice, but to my kid they were more like individuals with distinct personalities. Admittedly, I concede that this female was pretty cool as far as mice go. She was very docile and would sit on his desk and watch him do his homework. She went to school with him as the subject of his oral report. I swear I actually saw this mouse come to my son when he called it one time. He was very attached...

    ...Which is probably why our cats targeted her. One night, they succeeded in prying the top off her aquarium and made her the object of their cruel cat-games for several hours. When we found her in the morning she was alive but in bad shape, and she died later that day.

    My son was wrecked. He laid on his bed and cried and cried, and I just did not know what to say or do for him. It was the most awkward position I've ever been in...it pained me to see him in such sorrow, but I couldn't feel it, couldn't find the empathy. I'm not hard-wired to handle such a flood of emotion as came out of my son that day. I only know how to shut down, and my urge was to shut him down, though that would have been much worse than doing nothing, which is pretty much what I did and always do in highly emotional situations.

    If your dog gets hit by a car, going out and scraping it's remains off the pavement is the closest I can come to comforting you.

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