[ENTJ] ENTJ Perspective

[Night]

Alright, let's relax the personal attacks and re-focus on the original baseline of the OP:

So many do not understand how an ENTJ thinks. In this thread I will attempt to shine some light.

For one when we meet you, you are neutral in our minds. You have no being, no relevance until you do or say something that is valuable to the context of the situation. If you immediately expect us to treat you with any notion that incorporates specialized understanding, you are going to be disappointed. We will not. It is not because we don't value you, it is because we don't fucking know you or how you pertain. We need to size you up first.

From there, there comes a sense of your capabilities. What do you have to contribute, what do you create conflict with. We will look at situations quickly, specially in the professional world, and will expect you to jump right in. Utilizing your strengths and we will prepare for your weakness, by maybe asking you to do two times your weakness vs one of your strength.

In relationships. We go out of our way, to accomadate you.At least as we believe accommodating is. We may try to open up. To share personal information. To schedule you in. There is little you will get from us beyond that at such a short period of time.

If you fail to recognize we are going out of our way to please you, (since 97% of people don't even pass the first screening), we will doubt our judgment of you. We either thought wrong or you are an ass. Either way we will alter out strategy to meet you on your own level.this isn't coldness. Ultimately we would like to learn we were right, but if you continue to falter, we will very quickly lose respect and be annoyed.

I hate writing long posts. Any thoughts?

What are your thoughts on ThatGirl's premise?

 

[JustHer]

Can we by any chance stop getting in each others way????

Jag, if the thread/thatgirls threads piss you off so, post in it once saying you disagree. That's enough. You've said your part.

Thatgirl, try writing your threads in a way that shows that it is your personal experience, which you believe could be true for ENTJs as well, and ask for their input. Clearly, this should be implied, but considering how heated the ENTJ-community of late has been, it might be worth a try.

And please, stop harassing each other and pissing each other off over the entire board, and if it is that you guys love that, make a thread where you can battle it out, so it doesnt spread over the entire f*** board. You're giving other people a migraine, and I don't even wanna know what you're doing to your own frigging bloodpressure.

You can just ignore threads you don't like... wouldn't that be easier than trying to tell everyone what to do?

Just a thought..

 

[Silencio]

You can just ignore threads you don't like... wouldn't that be easier than trying to tell everyone what to do?

Just a thought..

SILENCE... His lack of 'P' gives me my daily laughs. Anyways, It's hard to tell whether he's trolling everybody (which is an amusing hobby of mine...lol...) or if he actually gets THAT pissed for the entire life of a thread. Either way it's funny so I don't see why people get so bent out of shape. *waiting for more.

 

[tinkerbell]

Deck the halls with boughs of holly,
Fa la la la la, la la la la.
Tis the season to be jolly,
Fa la la la la, la la la la.

Don we now our gay apparel,
Fa la la, la la la, la la la.
Troll the ancient Yule tide carol,
Fa la la la la, la la la la.

 

[Halla74]

Deck the halls with boughs of holly,
Fa la la la la, la la la la.
Tis the season to be jolly,
Fa la la la la, la la la la.

Don we now our gay apparel,
Fa la la, la la la, la la la.
Troll the ancient Yule tide carol,
Fa la la la la, la la la la.

LMAO!!!! :yim_rolling_on_the_

I'll drink to that!



-Halla

 

[tinkerbell]

 

[ThatGirl]

This thread has become completely out of control.

Halla I am especially disappointed in your words. Anyone who has asked clarification on the op has received it.

In regards to the op: Tell me one place I am wrong. It is not an immature outlook on life, as a matter of fact I have been one of the most mature people in this thread to date.

To clarify, say I am at a party or hanging out socially. To be quiet honest I am not looking at every person as the person they are. They tend to be part of the setting, a product of the party. I will socialize and laugh but I do not give much thought as to their needs and desires beyond that point. This means that in this setting anything I say is not to be taken personal, how could it, I don't even know you. It is usually just a thought that comes out or some observation on an objective subject. This is where I stated that everyone is neutral. I don't interact with you on personal or meaningful levels out side the context. It is my idea that you are a part of the party. This analogy goes with people I meet when out and about. I do not find this odd, actually to me I always assumed this was quiet normal. I in turn do not take much of what people say or do personally because I do hold the belief that I am a mere participant of that environment for that time. If someone were to make an observation or suggestion about myself, I also take it from a neutral stand point.

When this dynamic changes, and someone starts to hold some sort of long term position in my world, yes I do size them up for their contribution. Is this person drama, do I enjoy hanging out with them, are they going to do nothing but bring negativity, get overly sensitive, or hold me back. Like wise which position would they fall into, meaningful long term acquaintance (I enjoy hanging out from time to time, but make it a point to not get too chummy beyond that), good friend (we are both open and respective of each others life and styles I find them genuinely trust worthy and not overly needy, romantic interest.

When I said 97% of people don't make the first pass, I was speaking about romantic interests. For everyone who thinks this is assholeish take a minute to stop and think about how many people you have dated vs how many you have met. Naturally, unless you are a big whore, the numbers will differ considerably.

I went on to say that as a romantic interest I will feel like I am going out of my way to make you happy. Generally making time even if I don't have much to spare, I will be more careful of my words, and try to do things that show immense respect for you as a person. If these efforts are not recognized it is easy for me to get frustrated with a person. Like do not look at what I am not doing look at what I am. It may not be romancing you, but it is being there for you.

None of this sounds rude or outlandish to me, on the contrary, I always believed this is how most people operate. Though I am willing to consider this may not be the case. Asking "Any thoughts," (get it cause ENTJs are Te) I was inviting other ENTJs to share their perspectives. Again not closed minded not rude. I admit my communication style may be abrasive at times, another reason to take everything I say in the most objective manner as possible as it was intended.

As far as my being an ENTJ you can look back to such threads I posted as "How do ENTJs become likable and less threatening to others." There is a stigma that has formed in my mind about my personality. I do not know if it is because I am female or maybe just sensitive but I generally hate watching people take a step back from me as I step forward. I have always felt a bit like a bull in a china closet and have spent a lot of time trying to figure out how to be less abrasive with other. This is a difficult task given that usually I get frustrated by the time it is taking to make someone feel comfortable when I can just take control and get things rolling quicker without it. I don't live a life that much depends on others (by choice) and most often just cut people who can not keep up lose. I am incredibly focused on my goals, and my time is valuable to me specially when things need to happen "now".

Due to the fact that I joined this forum in possibly an insecure state (after a divorce and other issues) I may have immaturely wanted to prove not only to myself but others that I could be laid back and fun. That I didn't have to control everyone, and it wasn't always me against you. I wrote a P under my type description. However I was still the same TG.

I think people saw my abrasive styles and took a long time to get used to my personality. Inevitably it seems they justified the fact that I was just another idiosyncratic ENTP. I didn't imagine the denial of this would be so shocking. I have finally come to terms with the fact that I am an ENTJ and that if I want to refine my personality it is not in denying it, but mastering and refining it. So I changed my type to more accurately reflect my state of mind.

I see no reason as to why this is such a big problem for everyone else who has jumped on band wagons and followed me into almost every thread I have made. Derailing honestly valid ideas for the sake of heckling and derailing.

I would have to say I find this completely based on feeling since their is no rationality or purpose. It only serves to cut real information short of its lifespan. I believe it is highly disrespectful and would like to remind you all that I have never, even in my most obnoxious moments, treated any of you or your threads with such carelessness.

Halla you asked what I am doing? I am a mother, kick ass at my full time job, go to school full time where I am pursuing a career in pathology and yes maintained another 4.0 this semester. I work out at the gym, buy books in my off time, and still find the time to fuck around on vent...a lot. I am currently getting a second job since my school cut the winter program and am studying ahead for next semesters subject. Other than that my life is in a building state right now in which I am trying to accomplish plans that need constant attention but hold markers for results. 1) in a year and a half, 2) in four years, and 3) in ten. I know that seems far out there, planning the first stage which is a complete life overhaul to show its results in the next year and a half is a freakishly small amount of time to work with.

I enjoy the forum and vent because right now I have too much on my plate to add in focusing laying the foundations for real meaningful social connections. I will also admit, I was careless with the ones I had.

Now I think it is time to call time of death on this thread.

All posts made about my type can be moved here where they should have been When I fist started getting pissed by this dynamic

Anything off topic can be moved to the graveyard already.

And I think that accounts for most of the responses in this 100+ post thread.

I expect people to get their shit together and treat me with respect. If you have anything to say to me, make it appropriate and relevant.

 

[FDG]

I admit my communication style may be abrasive at times, another reason to take everything I say in the most objective manner as possible as it was intended.

Nope, it would just be easier, holistically, if you were to modify your interaction style towards less abrasivness. Don't be so self-centered, your posts will always result in a lot of controversy with little real discussion as long as you don't modify such "take it or leave it" type of attitude. I can understand that you're stressed by the amount of things you need to handle in your everyday life, but we're on an internet forum, we're not necessarily close friends with each other, thus we cannot always take into account why others might be acting in a certain way.

 

[ThatGirl]

Nope, it would just be easier, holistically, if you were to modify your interaction style towards less abrasivness. Don't be so self-centered, your posts will always result in a lot of controversy with little real discussion as long as you don't modify such "take it or leave it" type of attitude.
I can understand that you're stressed by the amount of things you need to handle in your everyday life, but we're on an internet forum, we're not necessarily close friends with each other, thus we cannot always take into account why others might be acting in a certain way.

Actually my plans and accomplishments, at the most, are a good kind of stress. I generally feel happy working toward them.

Thank you for your suggestions.

I actually wrote this not too long ago.

The elegant NT is not one who strives out of anger and absence of emotion. They are not mean and unruly, that is just ghetto and lacks class.

Regardless I would say my actions in this thread were the least of its problems.

 

[highlander]

Nope, it would just be easier, holistically, if you were to modify your interaction style towards less abrasivness. Don't be so self-centered, your posts will always result in a lot of controversy with little real discussion as long as you don't modify such "take it or leave it" type of attitude. I can understand that you're stressed by the amount of things you need to handle in your everyday life, but we're on an internet forum, we're not necessarily close friends with each other, thus we cannot always take into account why others might be acting in a certain way.

Holy crap. Just read through this whole thread. I think people don't like being judged by others or self serving/seeking interaction or behavior, which the original post may have reflected to some degree. I've known a lot of ENTJs who are gifted leaders, eminent in their fields, competent, and people I both like and respect. I have seen several cases of people being judged and subject to the ENTJ "axe" which was mentioned in one of the posts. It has happened to me as well.

ThatGirl, I know the feedback was a bit challenging or over the top, but it may help you to have a sense of how you affect others at times, and the feelings or emotions that it can create. I admire all that you're accomplishing in your personal situation and congratulate you on your efforts, through this forum, to work on things. Good luck!!

 

[Risen]

Nope, it would just be easier, holistically, if you were to modify your interaction style towards less abrasivness. Don't be so self-centered, your posts will always result in a lot of controversy with little real discussion as long as you don't modify such "take it or leave it" type of attitude. I can understand that you're stressed by the amount of things you need to handle in your everyday life, but we're on an internet forum, we're not necessarily close friends with each other, thus we cannot always take into account why others might be acting in a certain way.

There was nothing wrong or out of the ordinary in the style presented by the OP. What made the thread devolve was people's past perceptions of the poster, a generally negative perception. Many of us also do not believe the poster to be the type she says she is, so when she speaks on that issue some will immediately discard what she says for feeling it lacks any credibility or true insight, and thusly, a devolving discussion is born.

The merits of the OP cease to be important, and the overall perception of the poster, based upon previous experiences, is what becomes prime. Then when the trolling starts as a retort to the poster and the false image they are presenting (in the minds of the trollers), others are swayed by the theatrics and the overall appraisal of the situation is distorted by the mess they see. They see chaos, and immediately make mental shortcuts and attribution errors that tell them the poster must be at fault for the debauchery, when in fact, the words spoken have little inflammatory power in their own right. It is all the other context and background info about the poster, put together in the minds of every individual reader as their own perception.

Case in point, those who do not know the poster never find anything to yell or scream about, because they don't possess all the built up prejudice that the familiars have. It is little to do with communication style, everything to do with people's perceptions of the poster (less what the poster is saying).

My objective view.

 

[highlander]

Utilizing your strengths and we will prepare for your weakness, by maybe asking you to do two times your weakness vs one of your strength.

One additional suggestion. IMHO, you get the best out of people by leveraging their strengths, not by focusing on their weaknesses.

Everyone has weaknesses. What to do about them? You can get a little better. You can work with someone who has strengths in those areas to compliment you. Or, you can stop doing them. You can't make people into something they are not and especially can't expect them to think like you or be more like you. I know one very gifted ENTJ that expects just that and it is his biggest weakness as a leader. He also does not have tolerance for others who have different ideas or opinions than his, which I think is limiting as well.

 

[ThatGirl]

One additional suggestion. IMHO, you get the best out of people by leveraging their strengths, not by focusing on their weaknesses.

Everyone has weaknesses. What to do about them? You can get a little better. You can work with someone who has strengths in those areas to compliment you. Or, you can stop doing them. You can't make people into something they are not and especially can't expect them to think like you or be more like you. I know one very gifted ENTJ that expects just that and it is his biggest weakness as a leader. He also does not have tolerance for others who have different ideas or opinions than his, which I think is limiting as well.

In my opinion utilizing or focusing too much on someones strengths only, while immediately beneficial, leaves huge holes for the future. This particular statement was made in regards to work type situations, even some friendships where people seek me out for advice.

My idea of long term practical solution is this. Your strength will always be there, they are inherited strengths. Too many people rely solely on these throughout life. If you really want to improve, do not ignore your strengths, but work twice as hard on your weakness. Once your weakness is no longer an area of liability, work on your strengths uninhibited, and grow like a mother fucker.

 

[Ghost of the dead horse]

Nope. You expressed having taken true offense to the situation, rather than simply frustration or irritation. You also were motivated enough to post a wall of text, rather than dismiss the others outright. Fairly ENFPish reaction to negative stimulus.

This, sir, is garbage.

 

[highlander]

In my opinion utilizing or focusing too much on someones strengths only, while immediately beneficial, leaves huge holes for the future. This particular statement was made in regards to work type situations, even some friendships where people seek me out for advice.

My idea of long term practical solution is this. Your strength will always be there, they are inherited strengths. Too many people rely solely on these throughout life. If you really want to improve, do not ignore your strengths, but work twice as hard on your weakness. Once your weakness is no longer an area of liability, work on your strengths uninhibited, and grow like a mother fucker.

Well, agree that there are weaknesses that can result in your undoing and that working on both is worthwhile. However, there is the question of the return on investment for your efforts. What I have found is that it is very difficult to get really good at things you don't have natural talents in. From a personal standpoint, as much as it annoys me to no end, the things I'm not good at now are the things that I wasn't good at 20 years ago. It is not for lack of trying. You find ways to compensate, get a bit better, etc.

I think understanding the unique contributions people bring, appreciating them for their uniqueness, and supporting them to develop their natural talents into real strengths is simply a more effective strategy. If you then leverage those talents in combination and facilitate teaming amongst those who have complimentary strengths, that is what leads to the "wow - how did you do that" kind of performance.

 

[onemoretime]

This, sir, is garbage.

Now THAT's an ENTJ response.

 

[Ghost of the dead horse]

Even ENTJ can't treat everything as something they didn't care about.

 

[SillySapienne]

This is kind of an irrelevant post but...

I only think there are, like, three or four real ENTJs who frequent this forum.

Other trends I have seen.

Males switching their Is to Es.

Male Fs "becoming" Ts

And some wimmens switching their Es to Is.

Also, many INTPs tend to go xNTP, or IxTP, too... eventually.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

What is relevant is this.

Fuck MBTI if you do not *sincerely* relate to a type.

I'm tired of seeing people trying to disingenuously portray MBTI roles.

Know who you are, and keep it fuckin' real, man!!!

How are you gonna learn and grow at all as a person if a.) you're not true to yourself, b.) you're not honest with others, and c.) you're not willing to listen to, and digest, constructive/productive feedback.

-SS

 

[Ghost of the dead horse]

Gotta agree with that (irrelevant as it is) - who in their right mind would want to play a type for kicks?

Still, I think just perhaps 30-50% of people look much like any one type (more irrelevancy here).

 

[highlander]

This is kind of an irrelevant post but...

I only think there are, like, three or four real ENTJs who frequent this forum.

Other trends I have seen.

Males switching their Is to Es.

Male Fs "becoming" Ts

And some wimmens switching their Es to Is.

Also, many INTPs tend to go xNTP, or IxTP, too... eventually.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

What is relevant is this.

Fuck MBTI if you do not *sincerely* relate to a type.

I'm tired of seeing people trying to disingenuously portray MBTI roles.

Know who you are, and keep it fuckin' real, man!!!

How are you gonna learn and grow at all as a person if a.) you're not true to yourself, b.) you're not honest with others, and c.) you're not willing to listen to, and digest, constructive/productive feedback.

-SS

Very interesting observations and good points. Why anyone would masquerade? I have no idea what practical purpose this would serve. Maybe they don't know? Maybe they don't like their type and would rather be something else? It took me six months to figure it out when I first started getting into this stuff, so I empathize with those who aren't sure.

For those who aren't sure and see this post, consider taking a Step II MBTI at the following site: discoveryourpersonality.com. It may be one useful data point.