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  1. #11
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    I don't know you well enough to really give you good advice beyond toning it down....

    Right now you are coming off as a player contrary to popular beleif women don't like that so much.

    Don't brag, don't talk about all the other women you could be spending time with.

    Don't just book one date, go for a coffee and a chat and then do a real date, then do a second date... don't jump on their ones until you know their siblings names and their grandmothers maden name.... so thats a load of talking and getting to know them

    Allow yourself the freedom to screw up..... realise you are not strong and bonding with people so you need to give yourself sufficient support to be able to bond effectively with someone. That takes time and practice... and when you get to know them, most importantly, you don't HAVE to want to take it further...

    Try your best to break your own ice... which I beleive is the issue. ENTPs are socially anxious and are best when they know people, you don't make it to knowing them zone so all relating is really weak... be open about really just wanting to get to know them because you want a serious relationship....

    I can't say for sure it this apporach will work because I don't know the type fo women you are trying to go out with, but it has integrety and openess...

    Think not too full on, take it slowly, don't tell them everythign about you in the first hour - LISTEN to them, ask them questions... talk about things that are not about you... interests, movies etc...

    Hope this helps, I really don't know you well enough to really have a grip on what is going on with you, but your OP sounded genuine and open, so just be gentle with yourself... Rome isn't built in a day GOOD LUCK

  2. #12
    Playnerd Timeless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SerengetiBetty View Post
    ok i haven't read all the responses thoroughly. i just wanted to comment on this
    I think you should have buddy ol' pal.

    because i do this quite often. for me it's not about playing head games but about a guy GETTING and then KEEPING my attention.
    That's already a fucked up way to have things.

    The last thing I'm gonna do is "try" to keep her attention, or have her keep "up" for mine. That is trying too hard on both parties. I rather have things mutual and 50/50.

    if you're meeting extroverted, attractive women then odds are she's meeting lots of men. trust me 95% of dudes *at least in my opinion* are extremely BORING. they talk about boring stuff, they suggest doing boring things, and they say the same things,do the same things, etc. If I'm not going to go out again with guy 1A who turns out to be like this,I for damn sure am not going out with guy 1Z that I meet.
    Yep, I know whatcha' mean, but here's the thing, any guy can be a clown or dancing monkey, unless that is his job.

    Now, if a guy has to train or "do" something to become a dancing monkey or what not, then that to me, is starting a relationship under the lid.

    so from what you're reading it sounds like you got the getting the attention part but not really keeping the attention. what are you talking to these women about when you call them? Are you not being your playful yet mysterious ENTP self?
    I'm not much of a phone or text person, I usually—like with my friends—just use it to set up plans and get together with people. Every now and then I'd talk about day or theirs.

    Playful, sure sucka. Mysterious, well I do speak my mind, but I don't spill myself all over.

    also this:

    huh? you're trying to determine someone's degree of authenticity or fakeness after only meeting them once? it sounds like you're more focused on the vision of whatever constitutes a relationship in your mind and just looking for a woman to drop into place. this isn't really how it works. just because a girl agrees to go out on date 1 with you doesn't automatically mean there will be a date 5
    Not at all. it's like this:

    If I have a chance to lay down the cards on the table, why not? If I have a chance to not allow myself a hidden hand, why not? In other words, I can only be responsible for what goes out and in from me.

    And yes, I actually believe if somebody is BS'ing you on day 1, they will BS you on day 467. Why wait 'til day 95 to find out?

    The way I see it, it's like when I meet a lady, when I'm upfront, I give her the opportunity to be upfront and honest with me. If I don't, she won't. Given that chance, why would anybody want to deal with a mask? Why wait? It's not to say I'd run away at first sight of one, it's more like if I don't feel comfortable with their agenda whatever it may be; gold-digger, attention whore, monogamous, polyamorous, single and looking, single and not looking etc. I'll walk away.

    I can only imagine how the girls must deal with guys who have hidden agendas as well.

    So, it's not about who will drop into place, it's just who's sincerely interested in me back.

    To fidella: Yesterday while shopping, I met this cute lady from France, I went up to her, smiled, had that gut feeling to say it, and simply told her "I… want… you." she blushed, and to make a long story short, we just sat down and talked for hours and hours. We set up a date for later, so we'll see how that goes… I think she was an ESTP, ENTP, or ENFP; she was all about "newness" and open-mindedness...

  3. #13
    Playnerd Timeless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    I don't know you well enough to really give you good advice beyond toning it down....

    Right now you are coming off as a player contrary to popular beleif women don't like that so much.

    Don't brag, don't talk about all the other women you could be spending time with.

    Don't just book one date, go for a coffee and a chat and then do a real date, then do a second date... don't jump on their ones until you know their siblings names and their grandmothers maden name.... so thats a load of talking and getting to know them
    Ahh, k...

    Allow yourself the freedom to screw up..... realise you are not strong and bonding with people so you need to give yourself sufficient support to be able to bond effectively with someone. That takes time and practice... and when you get to know them, most importantly, you don't HAVE to want to take it further...
    Man, my friend (ENFP) was just saying that to me yesterday...

    Try your best to break your own ice... which I beleive is the issue. ENTPs are socially anxious and are best when they know people, you don't make it to knowing them zone so all relating is really weak... be open about really just wanting to get to know them because you want a serious relationship....
    Right on.

    I can't say for sure it this apporach will work because I don't know the type fo women you are trying to go out with, but it has integrety and openess...

    Think not too full on, take it slowly, don't tell them everythign about you in the first hour - LISTEN to them, ask them questions... talk about things that are not about you... interests, movies etc...
    Si si...

    Hope this helps, I really don't know you well enough to really have a grip on what is going on with you, but your OP sounded genuine and open, so just be gentle with yourself... Rome isn't built in a day GOOD LUCK


    Thank you dear.

    (Seriously)


  4. #14
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    your welcome, be gentle with yourself and lots of luck

  5. #15
    Senior Member SerengetiBetty's Avatar
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    That's already a fucked up way to have things.

    The last thing I'm gonna do is "try" to keep her attention, or have her keep "up" for mine. That is trying too hard on both parties. I rather have things mutual and 50/50.

    yeah i guess it is a little fucked up to the guys who can't hold my interest, because i'm like a fly in their soup. they think they know what ALL women. i certainly have female friends who are perfectly fine with being taken out to 4 star restaurants and listen to some guy essentially give them a list of reasons of why she should be with him (ie i work at X company doing Y job and I live in Z highrise) but that stuff bores me to tears and considering where I live (NYC) there are many men who do that



    Yep, I know whatcha' mean, but here's the thing, any guy can be a clown or dancing monkey, unless that is his job.

    Now, if a guy has to train or "do" something to become a dancing monkey or what not, then that to me, is starting a relationship under the lid.
    are you insinuating that you as an ENTP are trainable? :yim_rolling_on_the_

    seriously though, don't be a dancing monkey to get a girl. save for when you're well into the relationship and need to spice up the bedroom activities


    and i'll be honest. i know enough women to know that some of them set up hoops for men to jump through.i said some but definitely not all. the ones who do aren't ready to be in relationships IMO and it's best tojust moveon.



    The way I see it, it's like when I meet a lady, when I'm upfront, I give her the opportunity to be upfront and honest with me. If I don't, she won't. Given that chance, why would anybody want to deal with a mask? Why wait? It's not to say I'd run away at first sight of one, it's more like if I don't feel comfortable with their agenda whatever it may be; gold-digger, attention whore, monogamous, polyamorous, single and looking, single and not looking etc. I'll walk away.

    I can only imagine how the girls must deal with guys who have hidden agendas as well.

    So, it's not about who will drop into place, it's just who's sincerely interested in me back.
    i think i understand what you mean now. i agree with tinkerbelle about bonding effectively with someone, that *at least in my opinion* can't happen after 1 meeting, 1 date,or quite possibly even 5. it takes time to develop interest at least the type of interest i think you mean.

    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    ENTPs are socially anxious and are best when they know people, you don't make it to knowing them zone so all relating is really weak... be open about really just wanting to get to know them because you want a serious relationship....
    this is so not true for me . i don't think ive ever been socially anxious. i do agree about being upfront about wanting to be in a serious relationship. letting that be known is a good way of weeding out the women who are not ready for that .

  6. #16
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Hey Christian, I think Tinkerbell's got some excellent advice there. Bonding with people takes practice outside of a romantic context. Do you have people in your life that you would allow to be close to you? Not just friends to hang out with, but that would you go to if you needed support and whose lives you are contributing to? I think that would help tremendously as far as learning to be vulnerable/trust and that would also change some of the vibes that you are giving out.

    The worry I would have about women who respond well to a guy walking up to them and tell them that they're gorgeous or that he wants them, is that they are likely to be a bit insecure themselves. This means that the next guy who walks up to them may also get a welcome reception, even if you are her boyfriend by then. With children who have a healthy attachment to their parents/other significant adults in their lives, they generally have some initial shyness around anyone new. That is positive and is there to protect them. I believe the adult version of that is showing enough self-care to investigate carefully before allowing a complete stranger to share their world. There have been lots of people that I've gotten to know and hang out with quickly when travelling. However, if the same thing were to happen in a place where I actually lived, it would be a different story. I wish you luck on your date. I still think though that that approach is better for sex than for anything longer term.

    When I saw your pictures here I remembered seeing them on the Bonfire picture thread right away. My first impression then had been: good-looking guy, a little bit vain, looks like a bit of a player. I know that neither of the last two may be true. However if those impressions were added to that guy approaching me on the street and telling me that I was beautiful, I might be initially a little embarrassed and flattered, talk for awhile, but upon reflection decide that the whole thing is a bad idea.

    I spent a number of years busking (playing music on the street) as a side job during university, which was invaluable for getting to quickly assess people's motives and the impressions they give off. If you want a woman to take you seriously and go on a date with you, don't be in too big of a hurry to close the deal. Most of the men I've ended up going on a date with (if we weren't friends/acquaintances before) were those that subtly indicated interest, made sure there was a way for us to remain in contact or that there was a venue where we could meet up again, but then made their exit. It created some interest and mystery. I still was assured that they found me attractive and that they'd like to spend time together, but there was no pressure. This indicated that they had a life and they were going somewhere, whether I was part of it or not. That made me curious to know what other things mattered that much to them.

  7. #17
    "Everything in its place" fill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    (everything she said)


    This is exactly what I'm saying.
    "Poor bastard. Wait 'till he sees the bats. "
    enneagram - 7/5/3

  8. #18
    Playnerd Timeless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SerengetiBetty View Post
    yeah i guess it is a little fucked up to the guys who can't hold my interest, because i'm like a fly in their soup. they think they know what ALL women. i certainly have female friends who are perfectly fine with being taken out to 4 star restaurants and listen to some guy essentially give them a list of reasons of why she should be with him (ie i work at X company doing Y job and I live in Z highrise) but that stuff bores me to tears and considering where I live (NYC) there are many men who do that
    A boring guy doing that is just like a boring girl just being a statue. It can go both ways.

    I know a few guys too who are willing to be disrespected, put up a show, just for the sake of a woman. It sucks to see or hear about it.

    It's all that generic advice that people still follow.

    are you insinuating that you as an ENTP are trainable? :yim_rolling_on_the_
    Yeah, look at my biceps:





    seriously though, don't be a dancing monkey to get a girl. save for when you're well into the relationship and need to spice up the bedroom activities
    It's only a matter of time when I get yet another idea.


    and i'll be honest. i know enough women to know that some of them set up hoops for men to jump through.i said some but definitely not all. the ones who do aren't ready to be in relationships IMO and it's best tojust moveon.
    Obviously not all women are like this, nor are all men, but there sure are a lot out there. It's like what I mentioned before; how many guys can go up to a lady, be straight, and say they're looking for nothing more then sex, or something more? Not many. When they don't do this, and play those games, they breed these gold diggers, attention whores, time wasters etc. And they in turn breed guys to do more of it etc.

    How many girls can go to their "guy friends" and ask if they want some head or a relationship? Not many. If they did, chances are if they take it, they weren't real friends in the first place, just playing the part. A real friend wouldn't do it.

    It's that caged (perspective) I wish to not go back to, or that battlefield. I very much enjoy peace.

    Anyways, despite all this cloudy talk, I still have faith for a sun. It's another reason why I made this thread. I know there is somebody out there who isn't a mutant or dead rose for me as I am for them.

    But yeah, it's easy to move on, but when you move on quite a lot, that's when you make threads like this.



    i think i understand what you mean now. i agree with tinkerbelle about bonding effectively with someone, that *at least in my opinion* can't happen after 1 meeting, 1 date,or quite possibly even 5. it takes time to develop interest at least the type of interest i think you mean.
    Yeah, It's basically all just about starting on a good foot with a clean slate. That's what I mean. Not really having every down pat, knowing them, and their history, and future plans on one day. That's where I think I'm ditzy at, moving from day 1 to the next day and so fourth with that good start. Or as tinkerbell, and my friend said it bonding…

    this is so not true for me . i don't think ive ever been socially anxious. i do agree about being upfront about wanting to be in a serious relationship. letting that be known is a good way of weeding out the women who are not ready for that .
    I'm weeding all-right. bonding… umm… what?

    ---

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    Hey Christian, I think Tinkerbell's got some excellent advice there. Bonding with people takes practice outside of a romantic context. Do you have people in your life that you would allow to be close to you? Not just friends to hang out with, but that would you go to if you needed support and whose lives you are contributing to? I think that would help tremendously as far as learning to be vulnerable/trust and that would also change some of the vibes that you are giving out.
    Like I mentioned to BlackCat, when I make a friend, I have a friend for life. I guess you can call my friends: best friends.

    And I do; every single of them are that way; with support if needed. They act the same way with me if they need support some way. Actually, they usually ask me for support more then I ask them, but all n' all, I learn from them just as much as they learn from me.

    The worry I would have about women who respond well to a guy walking up to them and tell them that they're gorgeous or that he wants them, is that they are likely to be a bit insecure themselves. This means that the next guy who walks up to them may also get a welcome reception, even if you are her boyfriend by then. With children who have a healthy attachment to their parents/other significant adults in their lives, they generally have some initial shyness around anyone new. That is positive and is there to protect them. I believe the adult version of that is showing enough self-care to investigate carefully before allowing a complete stranger to share their world. There have been lots of people that I've gotten to know and hang out with quickly when travelling. However, if the same thing were to happen in a place where I actually lived, it would be a different story. I wish you luck on your date. I still think though that that approach is better for sex than for anything longer term.
    Kinda got me lost there...

    When I saw your pictures here I remembered seeing them on the Bonfire picture thread right away. My first impression then had been: good-looking guy, a little bit vain, looks like a bit of a player. I know that neither of the last two may be true. However if those impressions were added to that guy approaching me on the street and telling me that I was beautiful, I might be initially a little embarrassed and flattered, talk for awhile, but upon reflection decide that the whole thing is a bad idea.
    Somebody, somewhere mentioned something like that

    I spent a number of years busking (playing music on the street) as a side job during university, which was invaluable for getting to quickly assess people's motives and the impressions they give off. If you want a woman to take you seriously and go on a date with you, don't be in too big of a hurry to close the deal. Most of the men I've ended up going on a date with (if we weren't friends/acquaintances before) were those that subtly indicated interest, made sure there was a way for us to remain in contact or that there was a venue where we could meet up again, but then made their exit. It created some interest and mystery. I still was assured that they found me attractive and that they'd like to spend time together, but there was no pressure. This indicated that they had a life and they were going somewhere, whether I was part of it or not. That made me curious to know what other things mattered that much to them.
    Bonding comes to mind again...

    Now I have a new question for everybody:

    Ehm, how? or better yet… what's a better way to look at it from a different ENTP friendly perspective? I can't really explain how I bonded with my friends, it just happened. They are all different (cultures, ages, backgrounds) too—none are similar. I know some of you might say treat it the same way, but men and women are different. Not better or worse, just different. And you don't have sex with your friends.


    ---

    I just had a thought before I was going to submit the reply, maybe I should continue to have fun being single and just let it (a relationship) happen. I've said it before a ton on these forums that I don't mind, or wouldn't pass up a sexual experience, but my eyes are open for something more.

  9. #19
    Senior Member SerengetiBetty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timeless View Post


    I'm weeding all-right. bonding… umm… what?
    please don't ask me to explain myself. i've been high on sudafed and ginger ale all day long! so it's like willy wonka's factory in my head right now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Timeless View Post

    Now I have a new question for everybody:

    Ehm, how? or better yet… what's a better way to look at it from a different ENTP friendly perspective? I can't really explain how I bonded with my friends, it just happened. They are all different (cultures, ages, backgrounds) too—none are similar. I know some of you might say treat it the same way, but men and women are different. Not better or worse, just different. And you don't have sex with your friends.
    mheh. i don't treat men and women differently when i'm first getting to know them. i'm straight but if i'm getting to know a single and interested guy i'm physically and mentally attracted to, then i'm going to be just as playful, challenging and teasing as i would with potential female friend i've just met. the only difference is that i'll add more physical touch with the guy.i mean stuff like walking with my arm around his, brushing his shoulder or giving him a quick but funny pat on the butt. i say treat it the same for the most part but add in a few things to distinguish it as different.

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