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  1. #31
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    You mean there must be good reasoning behind the feelings before they're worthy of consideration?
    It depends on the person and the specific type (Ti vs Te is different), as well as age / maturity level / life experience / whatever else, and the feelings being examined.

    I think my Dad is a T (ISTJ I think) he is inappropriate and offensive all the time but when he should be offensive (when being pestered by telemarketers etc.) all of a sudden he is Mr Politeness, what's the deal with that?
    ISTJs act appropriately within the given social constraints.

    You're a bit vague on what situations your dad is inappropriate/offensive in, but in regards to telemarketers, the social situation is, well, social, with strangers, and hence he takes on an appropriate stance and a more formal one... if he's ISTJ.

    Quote Originally Posted by BBNB
    I don't discount my feelings, but I usually don't think they're enough to justify any major decision.
    T's naturally detach from feelings when they evaluate a situation in order to pass a judgment. They see feelings as "white noise." More mature T's will use them as signals to describe, well, personal values, and if they believe the situation calls for those personal values to be included in the decision, then they will... but the decision is generally a conscious one and chosen. (For example, getting mad at something someone did is evaluated, the anger is seen as a logical consequence of being violated, and so the T might rationally decide to not invest any more in a particular relationship because they were violated... but it's a rational thinking process being used to reach the conclusion.)

    F's are far more likely to include feelings in a decision, to whatever degree those personal feelings align with personal values and the values are far more instinctive instead of rationalized.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #32
    *hmmms* theadoor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamske View Post
    Feelings do matter! Only...

    1) I feel (yes, feel) my feelings aren't important enough to annoy other people with them. I won't pour out my heart to you, because when I feel bad that's my problem and not yours. Unless I know you very well and want your help with analyzing my feelings. You'll be welcome if you want my help. That way, the bad feelings will get out of the way and won't annoy more people.
    Good feelings, on the other hand, will be expressed easily!
    I totally agree with every word you wrote here!

  3. #33
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    It depends on the person and the specific type (Ti vs Te is different), as well as age / maturity level / life experience / whatever else, and the feelings being examined.



    ISTJs act appropriately within the given social constraints.

    You're a bit vague on what situations your dad is inappropriate/offensive in, but in regards to telemarketers, the social situation is, well, social, with strangers, and hence he takes on an appropriate stance and a more formal one... if he's ISTJ.



    T's naturally detach from feelings when they evaluate a situation in order to pass a judgment. They see feelings as "white noise." More mature T's will use them as signals to describe, well, personal values, and if they believe the situation calls for those personal values to be included in the decision, then they will... but the decision is generally a conscious one and chosen. (For example, getting mad at something someone did is evaluated, the anger is seen as a logical consequence of being violated, and so the T might rationally decide to not invest any more in a particular relationship because they were violated... but it's a rational thinking process being used to reach the conclusion.)

    F's are far more likely to include feelings in a decision, to whatever degree those personal feelings align with personal values and the values are far more instinctive instead of rationalized.
    Very well said.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    +1

    Thinkers have feelings too; we're just much more reasonable about putting them in context and not selfishly expecting the entire world to bend to our will just because we feel a certain way.

    .
    Thinkers are definitely more reasonable when it comes to their feelings, but are they really less selfish? Hmm. I'm not so sure of that. Maybe it's just that Thinkers and Feelers are selfish in different ways, for different reasons.

    Like, a Thinker might be selfish because they have deduced that it is the rational thing to do. Take Ayn Rand for example. Okay, finished laughing yet? But seriously...

  5. #35
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    Thinkers are definitely more reasonable when it comes to their feelings, but are they really less selfish? Hmm. I'm not so sure of that. Maybe it's just that Thinkers and Feelers are selfish in different ways, for different reasons.

    Like, a Thinker might be selfish because they have deduced that it is the rational thing to do. Take Ayn Rand for example. Okay, finished laughing yet? But seriously...
    Thinkers are selfish when it comes to violations of their logical principles, but that's not quite the same thing.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Thinkers are selfish when it comes to violations of their logical principles, but that's not quite the same thing.
    Sure it is. Thinkers can be very selfish, rude, inconsiderate...that's selfish, dude.

    People are selfish. It's our nature.

    Next.

  7. #37
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    Sure it is. Thinkers can be very selfish, rude, inconsiderate...that's selfish, dude.

    People are selfish. It's our nature.

    Next.
    We're discussing the reasons for it, not the behavior itself. Nobody ever said Thinkers as a whole are less selfish than Feelers, just that Thinkers are less selfish on an emotional basis.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  8. #38
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Well it's a double-edged blade, isn't it?

    In order to use F properly, to allow feelings to matter in a decision in a non-selfish mature way, one has to work to a whole hell of a lot of ***, before you can get it right. Emotions are just not that easy to channel. It takes practice.

    So...to detach from those emotions can give you a shortcut, in order to decide without that 'white noise' clouding your judgement. Very practical, and convenient. However, when you use this method you will also not get the benefit of practice. Which means that the times that you are in fact so swamped by white noise that it cannot be surpressed..you're going to drown, much like an immature F would, and be potentially selfish. Worse still, you'll convince yourself that you're fine and in control, as you're not aware that the white noise is seeping through and influencing you.
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  9. #39
    Writing... Tamske's Avatar
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    It seems you can be selfish either way.

    The Feeler way: lay an emotional load on everyone because you're so thin-skinned and need praise and attention, place your feelings before everything and everyone else.

    The Thinker way: bulldozer your way through people to accomplish your goals, being inconsiderate, see yourself as the only realist/rational around.
    Got questions? Ask an ENTP!
    I'm female. I just can't draw women

  10. #40
    Widdles in your cream.
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    hmmmm.... I'd rather eat a large live snake than talk about my feelings...
    While mulling this over in my head, my first thought was, "What kind of snake are we talking about? If it's a member of the viper family, then yes, because their venom is cytotoxic and if ingested would be broken into amino acids by the protease in the stomach. Which is kind of beneficial, actually, because I haven't been getting enough protein lately... If it's an elapid, then hell to the no. And would I eat it head first or start at the tail? Probably the tail, because it would be dead by the time I reached the fangs..." Meh.

    My opinions pretty much echo a lot of what has already been said, in that I do value my feelings, but in the grand scheme of myself vs the group, I nearly always prioritize the values of the majority. It saves a lot of time and fuss, and for some reason I just hate being the spanner in the wheel of progress over my own petty problems. I don't dwell on my personal values being squished, because I have a natural tendency to take on board other peoples values; the groups values become my own. Ultimately, if progress isn't delayed, then that is what matters.
    Um, yeah.

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