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  1. #1
    Member Shaggy's Avatar
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    Default INTP coping with an ENFJ

    My brother, whom I concerned for, is an INTP is in a marriage with an ENFJ. They have been married for 5-6 yrs and ran to obstacles lately that seem to put their marriage in jeopardy. The INTP slipped into the grips of his shadow, ENTJ. He seems to be on the defensive side when it comes to her. They are both drinking pretty heavily to cope with their differences. I get the impression its a struggle between their E-I. He is fighting for solitude as she is fighting for his attention.
    A lot have been happening in the world of the ENFJ, close friends coping with different events. The overload of activity is driving her to demand his attention throughout his downtime from work and school.
    My question is how do INTPs cope with such a situation without eliminating the marriage?
    The walls are in place, the shields are up and the stressor is not subsiding. I will give him no advice, but I would like to spark a perpective within him that may offer direction.

  2. #2
    Mud and rain and chaos... TickTock's Avatar
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    A relationship is a two way road, it is not a case of one side learning to "cope" with the other - implying one is being difficult while the other is free from any blame. It would probably be of great help to both if he gave her some of his time instead of constantly trying to block her out when she needs support. Once she has reassurance she will be more likely to allow him his time, while she gets her emotioons / head together.

  3. #3
    Member Shaggy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TickTock View Post
    A relationship is a two way road, it is not a case of one side learning to "cope" with the other - implying one is being difficult while the other is free from any blame. It would probably be of great help to both if he gave her some of his time instead of constantly trying to block her out when she needs support. Once she has reassurance she will be more likely to allow him his time, while she gets her emotioons / head together.
    I agree with you. It takes two, but it seems to me it has gotten to point where it all or nothing. She has a way of lighting a fire under his ass to get him more involved in the issues she have been dealing with. She is a great person, don't get me wrong, but she spread herself thin trying to save the world and he doesn't see the point in getting involved in other peoples lives without being asked to help. She can usually handle it on her own, but now she needs a partner in crime. This stuff his not his cup of tea...even if he put his all into it. His motto is "live and let live".
    I don't necessarily see things the same way he does. I was hoping to get a little better insight into the mind of the INTP caught in the grip of his shadow. If he stays in that position all will be lost.

  4. #4
    Member g_vartan's Avatar
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    I've (ENFJ) been in an on/off relationship with an INTP for the past two years now. I have to admit it hasn't been easy. Our relationship has finally found a nice rhythm/groove due to new-found communication, acceptance, and an abundance of understanding.

    The following write-up I think nicely summarizes what is typically found in an INTP (often Type 5) and ENFJ (often Type 2) relationship. Hope it helps (as it has been helpful to us):

    Type Five-Type Two

    Enneagram Twos and Fives are double opposites, as it were—a people person versus a loner, a feeling type with a thinking type. Twos and Fives come from different points of view on what is important in life and in a relationship. And yet, because they are so different, there can also be an intense attraction to the mystery of the other. Twos and Fives are a more common pairing than might be expected: Twos can see Fives as challenges—distant, mentally preoccupied, not giving many outward signals, and difficult to charm easily because they are so private. It is hard to know what pleases Fives which makes Twos only try harder. Twos bring to the relationship a willingness to take the initiative and to pursue the Five—to be the first one to call or to ask for a date, no matter which gender they are. When healthy, Twos bring warmth, physical comfort and ease (something Fives typically lack), a desire to improve the Five's living conditions, style of dress and eating habits—and many other marks of thoughtfulness-as signs of affection and genuine interest. Fives are usually not unaware of these, though they may not outwardly react to the expressions of affection of Twos, Fives are secretly pleased that anyone cares and is being attentive to them.

    For their part, Fives are usually very loyal: they find relationships complex and difficult, so they tend to value one that begins to work, and they tend to put energy into it. Fives bring stability and quiet, dispassionate good judgment and objectivity, particularly in crises. When Fives focus, they are good listeners and give undivided attention. They are not as attached to outcomes, and so can often make decisions more wisely and be good advisers to more emotionally volatile Twos. Fives are often more calm than Twos, and this gives them both types a feeling of steadiness and of hope. In short, Fives stabilize Twos' emotionality, while Twos warm up Fives' coolness. Twos enjoy seeing that their attention and affections have had positive, visible effects on the Five. Fives secretly like being doted over and finally finding the nurturing they have unconsciously been seeking (but may have almost given up on).

    Potential Trouble Spots or Issues

    Many of the issues that this couple faces have to do with their boundaries and how respectful or not each is of the other. Twos tend to become frustrated by the Five's lack of immediate response to them—sometimes Fives are so taciturn and involved in their own mental world that there is no response at all—which hurts the Two's feelings and feels like a rejection to them. Feeling rejected triggers deep anxieties in Twos relating to the fear that they are unwanted and unloved. This may make them redouble their efforts to get some kind of response from the Five. They may become more talkative, more curious and questioning of the Five, and more demanding-physically hoisting the Five from her desk, or barging into her library to drag her out dancing or to a movie because she needs a break from work. Much of the Two's activities become a form of intrusion that has at its root the need to reassure himself that the Five is still connected with him.

    But the more intrusive Twos become, the more Fives internally withdraw and detach emotionally from what feels like a threat to their autonomy and competence. Fives start to lose confidence in themselves and are actually harmed by being overly helped. Lower functioning Twos, however, feel that they have no value unless they are actively involved in every aspect of the other's life. But the more they feel intruded on, the more unsafe Fives begin to feel, and they may start to fear the Two (because they seem irrational and out of control to the Five). Fives can also become cynical about the value and viability of relationships—and cynical about the possibility of finding one that works for them. Fives tend to walk away from the entire question, losing interest in having an intimate relationship often for years at a time. But the more distance Fives put between themselves and Twos, the more this brings out the Two's obsessions and the more aggressive they become in their pursuit of the Five. It is a prescription for disaster, or at least loneliness, for both.
    Men themselves have wondered what they see in me. They try so much but they can't touch my inner mystery. I'm a woman. Phenomenally. Phenomenal woman. That's me. /Maya Angelou

  5. #5
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    give freedom of expression to each other
    and be practical about what is real - the physical world - in self responsibility
    stop the influence of judgments and thoughts.

    it is judgments and thoughts that establish personaliTIES and thus the differences/misunderstandings
    LIFE is the expression of SELF within and as Oneness and Equality

  6. #6
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    Why is an INTPs shadow an ENTJ?

  7. #7
    Member Shaggy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justxher View Post
    Why is an INTPs shadow an ENTJ?
    I'm not trying to say ENTJs are bad, but for anybody or any type getting locked into a state of mind you are not custom can get unbearable at times.

  8. #8
    Mud and rain and chaos... TickTock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy View Post
    I agree with you. It takes two, but it seems to me it has gotten to point where it all or nothing. She has a way of lighting a fire under his ass to get him more involved in the issues she have been dealing with. She is a great person, don't get me wrong, but she spread herself thin trying to save the world and he doesn't see the point in getting involved in other peoples lives without being asked to help. She can usually handle it on her own, but now she needs a partner in crime. This stuff his not his cup of tea...even if he put his all into it. His motto is "live and let live".
    I don't necessarily see things the same way he does. I was hoping to get a little better insight into the mind of the INTP caught in the grip of his shadow. If he stays in that position all will be lost.
    It sounds to me like they're at a point where unsaid tension has mounted to become a destructive force, due to not sharing the same values. It sounds like they haven't talked about what they need from the other and why they feel their actions are causing dissonance. They need to voice aloud the conflicts to understand each other and then they can move towards a mutual relationship. Because at the moment they are in the dark.

    Of course this is an assumption and it's all down to them. But they might be lost in their own darkness so a little perspective might help if you can tactfully offer it.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Kenneth Almighty's Avatar
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    MBTI can't and shouldn't be able to influence your decisions in a relationship. Trust me, it was an odd week when I let that happen.

    All relationships place themselves around trust, loyalty and forgiveness. They both should be able to compromise in some way or form.

  10. #10
    Member Shaggy's Avatar
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    Thanks g_vartan. Actually I talked to him this morning, and he brought the subject of communication. He said she talks and talks and listens and listens, but he feels out of line for speaking up for himself. I don't know if its the "intensity" that he is avoiding. I do believe if they understood each other better, in a deeper sense, they could get over this.

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