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  1. #71
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    yeah- but does an istp have any advantage that can be used over an entj? said istp is getting quite depressed and desperate!

  2. #72
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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  3. #73
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    yeah- but does an istp have any advantage that can be used over an entj? said istp is getting quite depressed and desperate!
    The ISTP I know, when he knows he's in the right, would beat any ENTJ in the stubbornness, dig-your-heels-in stakes, any day. If you're like him, then you have this vital quality: you won't back down.
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  4. #74
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    No, your insight into our psyche is incorrect. When I do set myself up for the tedious task which is convincing people by trying to change their minds - awfully difficult - is because I think that they can benefit from my advice, not because I get off by winning a debate..
    Yes, ENTJs, as all TJs tend to, have a compulsive advice giving syndrome.

    Thus, when they bark orders at you, they think they are rendering you a service.

    On practical basis, I would agree with you, you'd be giving them your views because you think this may help them. However, now I am thinking about ENTJs who argue about complex ideas. In history of philosophy, NTJs were notorious for forcing their views on others. They did not regret being a bit myopic until they went back to introspect, only there the Introverted Intuition suggested to them that they should be a bit more charitable to the views of others. But as far as Te is concerned--what we have is a standard that is ostensible to ALL. Whoever, meets the standard is right, whoever does not, is wrong. The ENTJ takes it upon himself to move those who are in the 'wrong' towards the 'right'. For this reason we can also draw a parallel to ENFJs in comparison to INFPs. INFPs do not believe in forcing values on their children, as they make values for their own sake, for the sake of their inner world. Yet ENFJs tend to believe in very gently persuading their children to embrace their beliefs.

    This isnt a remark about any ENTJ person(s), but rather a remark about how the unconscious faculty of Extroverted thinking tends to function. Moreover, this is not specific to ENTJs, but rather to the property of Extroverted Judgments (TJ/FJ), which is prominent, however, in ENTJs. As their first function is a TJ (Te).








    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Lol, read the last paragraph. If I set up a dichotomy with frustrated on one side of the set, and busy on the other, the two don't necessarily overlap, so an ENTJ may leave not necessarily out of frustration..
    I am not thinking about ENTJs on practical basis, but ENTJs who discuss complex ideas. There they will pursue the task tenaciously until their 'opponent' agrees with them, or they are proved 'wrong' in a very ostensible fashion. Last time I argued with the ENTJ in person that I've cited earlier, I had to perform reductio ad absurdum on many of his salient clauses.



    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    I've always befriended ENTJs allright. We never ever compete, only collaborate.
    Yes, Te can be a co-operative function, as EJ mentality tends to be radically collectivist.

    However, it is clear that EJs need an established hierarchy in order to cooperate, as otherwise they just would not know what role to hop into. The most adept leader will take it upon himself to establish hierarchy, that is likely going to be an ENTJ. I think there highly likely will be a power struggle if the two ENTJs who initially wanted to cooperate to get a task done, cannot decide which one of them is to establish the hierarchy. Moreover, the ENTJ who rescinds will resent the ENTJ leader and unless he is rendered 2nd in command, he likely will feel enough resentment to become resolute to subvert the primary guy. Not that he woud be content with being just 2nd in command, but there he may just be able to put up with it for long enough to get the project out of the way, next time he'd direct all of his energy to the one end and goal to becoming the 'primary guy', especially if that other ENTJ is also going to be involved again.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  5. #75
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    I've realized that there's no way to sway an ENTJ, and that since I'm signifigantly more soft spoken and am generally viewed as stupid by these people (some science majors find liberal arts majors to be idiots), there's really no winning in this situation. The ENFP pledge is quitting, another friend who is a high officer is quitting and I'm quitting. I'm old enough to realize sometimes you have to cut ties and move on- I'm really just regretting the fact that I stuck around as long as I did, and feel rather betrayed because I was nice to these people and thought they were my friends. At least I realize that I don't need friends like that.
    Fucking sucks though- I've just cut off a lot of the people I know!

  6. #76
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    ENTJs can be defeated!!! (just learned this after I thought I'd screwed myself completely over in hopes of making at least a small gesture!)

  7. #77
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    ENTJs can be defeated!!! (just learned this after I thought I'd screwed myself completely over in hopes of making at least a small gesture!)
    How many bullets did it take?
    My wife and I made a game to teach kids about nutrition. Please try our game and vote for us to win. (Voting period: July 14 - August 14)
    http://www.revoltingvegetables.com

  8. #78
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    None! My brain is that good!

  9. #79
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    None! My brain is that good!
    I bow to your mighty mental prowess.

    My wife and I made a game to teach kids about nutrition. Please try our game and vote for us to win. (Voting period: July 14 - August 14)
    http://www.revoltingvegetables.com

  10. #80
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    I bow to your mighty mental prowess.

    It really isnt that hard...

    An ENTP would be more of a challenge because of Ti.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

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