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  1. #111
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    I'm more curious how you can agree with an ENTJ without them believing they have been given a green light on just about everything associated with it.

    It seems like ENTJs don't reconize the difference between a "what" and a "how". It's rather like "I think we should eliminate poverty" + "I agree" = "Ok, I'm going to overthrow society, create a new government, and just plain kill anyone who is in my way"... slow down, yeesh.

    /today's rant.

  2. #112
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    I'm more curious how you can agree with an ENTJ without them believing they have been given a green light on just about everything associated with it.

    It seems like ENTJs don't reconize the difference between a "what" and a "how". It's rather like "I think we should eliminate poverty" + "I agree" = "Ok, I'm going to overthrow society, create a new government, and just plain kill anyone who is in my way"... slow down, yeesh.

    /today's rant.

    hahahaha, my ENTJ best friend doesn't have any brakes either. You agree with her, then you mash the pedal and it goes straight to the floor.
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
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    RLUEI, Choleric/Melancholic
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    AIS Holland code
    Researcher: VDI-P
    Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious

  3. #113
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    I'm more curious how you can agree with an ENTJ without them believing they have been given a green light on just about everything associated with it.

    It seems like ENTJs don't reconize the difference between a "what" and a "how". It's rather like "I think we should eliminate poverty" + "I agree" = "Ok, I'm going to overthrow society, create a new government, and just plain kill anyone who is in my way"... slow down, yeesh.

    /today's rant.
    That's when you ask them to detail the procedure first, then place objections on the details.
    Dreams are best served manifest and tangible.

    INFP, 6w7, IEI

    I accept no responsibility, what so ever, for the fact that I exist; I do, however, accept full responsibility for what I do while I exist.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  4. #114
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    yeah- I once had an ENTJ roommate in a triple apt. (the other roommate was an ESTJ, so I was a bit outnumbered). She said that she wanted to get a few things from the store to make the place look nicer so we told her that we'd chip in after she got back- she'd only mentioned 3 items so we thought we were safe. She came back with a carload of stuff and had spent over $1,000- unfortunatly we had agreed to split the costs- ugh- you give an ENTJ an inch and they will take something like 10 miles!
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  5. #115
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    I'm more curious how you can agree with an ENTJ without them believing they have been given a green light on just about everything associated with it.

    It seems like ENTJs don't reconize the difference between a "what" and a "how". It's rather like "I think we should eliminate poverty" + "I agree" = "Ok, I'm going to overthrow society, create a new government, and just plain kill anyone who is in my way"... slow down, yeesh.

    /today's rant.
    ahahaha, good point!

  6. #116
    Scream down the boulevard LadyJaye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    I'm more curious how you can agree with an ENTJ without them believing they have been given a green light on just about everything associated with it.

    It seems like ENTJs don't reconize the difference between a "what" and a "how". It's rather like "I think we should eliminate poverty" + "I agree" = "Ok, I'm going to overthrow society, create a new government, and just plain kill anyone who is in my way"... slow down, yeesh.

    /today's rant.

    It's just like that, isn't it?! It's almost comical, sometimes. Coming from their own mouths, "yes" means "yes", and "no" means "no" - but, from everyone else, "yes" still means "yes", but "no" means " undecided".
    It all depends on their agenda.

    There was an ENTJ guy that decided he wanted the two of us to go out - he was very charming, intelligent, and funny, but he was involved in organized crime, so I said no. This stunned him a little, but it didn't deter him, because I think he was convinced that I just hadn't seen reason yet. He even launched an elaborate campaign to wear me down. All very cleverly executed, too.

    But I still said no.

  7. #117
    Junior Member Pangolin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    yeah- I once had an ENTJ roommate in a triple apt. (the other roommate was an ESTJ, so I was a bit outnumbered). She said that she wanted to get a few things from the store to make the place look nicer so we told her that we'd chip in after she got back- she'd only mentioned 3 items so we thought we were safe. She came back with a carload of stuff and had spent over $1,000- unfortunatly we had agreed to split the costs- ugh- you give an ENTJ an inch and they will take something like 10 miles!
    At that point, I'd indicate that I had agreed to split the cost for the 3 mentioned items, and would proffer 1/3 of the cost of those, leaving it up to the ENTJ to either soak the cost of the rest of the crap, or take the stuff back. If you only agreed on 3 items, you only agreed on 3 items. Stand firm a little.

  8. #118
    Senior Member Gabe's Avatar
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    "The group is a professional fraternity and I'm one of the last of the "old guard" of members. I've always beleived that we should treat pledges as human beings, which means that since I was initiated I've helped pledged study, got them out of trouble with actives, fed them home cooked meals and such- this group of ENTJs all were recipients of my help. Unfortunatly, most of them seem to have forgotten that they needed some help to get where they are now and are acting exactly like the actives they needed protection from. I'm still the one who's nice to pledges and advocates for them, which puts me at odds with the people who I helped get to where they are.

    The pledge in question (the ENFP) is a friend of mine and is a lot more competent than most of the ENTJs were as pledges, but she occasionally talks back and doesn't always stick to status quo. When the ENTJs (there's a clique of 3 of them) decided to try and force her to do something that is blatently against national fraternity law, she refused, and now they're trying to get her expelled for being disrespectful.

    Since I have some influence in the organization and am the only one who knows fraternity law I'm supposed to convince them to drop it.

    Hope this clarifies things a bit"

    What a bunch of assholes.
    What do you have to be 'competent' at in a fraternity?
    Why are you 'supposed to' stick up for your friend? Are you reluctant to? I'll have to temporarily ignore whatever type these people might be, but anyone who think's they're ALWAYS right should be neutralized.
    Anyway, I have almost now knowledge of fraternity politics. But it couldn't hurt to mention to them that they wouldn't be anywhere without you.
    You said you have damaging information on them? I would say that if they're being such jerks they don't deserve to have thier secrets kept. Now (at the risk of sounding really stupid here) since you say you have the law on your side, is there any higher up within the organization that you can bring this issue to?

  9. #119
    Senior Member persianeyes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    I'm in an organization which has an abnormally high percentage of ENTJs, which is vaguely scary! This usually isn't a problem, but some of them have recently stepped over the line on an issue, and I, as the wise old bourbon drinking grandma on the porch of the organization, am expected to set them straight. Not cool.

    How on earth does one argue a point with ENTJs? They seem so entirely convinced that they are more logical and correct than I am! I'd really appreciate some insight since I'm kind of dreading confronting them. I can play organization politics and threaten to air long buried skeletons with the best of them, but I'm kind of scared of large groups of people especially ENTJs.

    Please help?

    Oh yea, been there, done that.. it seems scary and i know how you feel, kinda trapped and outspoken?
    Don't worry, just be sure to follow my advise and you'll be just fine

    Advise #1: stick to your topic and make sure you have your facts streight, and use logic, they don't like having opinions and unnecissary comments thrown at them.
    Advise #2: They respect someone who stands up for ehat they believe, don't back down, if they lose an argument or debate you will surely win their respect.
    Advise #3: Be respectful, let them know that your listening to their side and try finding a nuetral perspective, so everyone agrees.

    hope that helped.. I've had couple of arguements with an ENTJ and he really respected my passionate beliefs and the way I stood up for them.

  10. #120
    Luctor et emergo Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    How on earth does one argue a point with ENTJs? They seem so entirely convinced that they are more logical and correct than I am! I'd really appreciate some insight since I'm kind of dreading confronting them. I can play organization politics and threaten to air long buried skeletons with the best of them, but I'm kind of scared of large groups of people especially ENTJs.
    Quite simply, you can't.

    Seriously though, expect to lose, unless your case is extremely valid. Basically, the best way to argue is to be firm, confident and know what you're talking about. You have to be able to stand your ground and not run off because they've cut you down based on one of your statements. Ensure you have an arsenal of points at your disposal. This is the only way you will ever be able to get an ENTJ to say "good point", or something along those lines.

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