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Thread: INTP Rebellion

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    Default INTP Rebellion

    I just now realized, at the age of 24, that my desire to rebel against the system caused me to miss a lot of opportunity. Several opportunities for development were sabotaged. Is this a common realization for INTP's(or INTJ's?) approaching their middle 20's?

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    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Honestly, I think it's common for many people regardless of type.

    Adolescence and young adulthood is a very hellish time, trying to define yourself and determine your life calling. A lot of it is spent reactively (for some more than others, I admit), pushing against the system that is attempt to dominate that journey.

    But that struggle is necessary if the individual is ever to break away and become truly autonomous.

    You're just moving to the next step now and seeing how you might have shot yourself in the foot, and how society can actually benefit you in some ways. You do not have to reject everything in order to find yourself. Part of growth is learning one's place in a community and how to both give and receive help.

    So don't fret. Just take advantage of your burgeoning awareness and find those opportunities.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schizm View Post
    I just now realized, at the age of 24, that my desire to rebel against the system caused me to miss a lot of opportunity. Several opportunities for development were sabotaged. Is this a common realization for INTP's(or INTJ's?) approaching their middle 20's?
    I can safely say that it is worse for ISTPs... and yes, I fought "the man" tooth and claw until I matured a bit.

    Still, that instinct comes back... often under stress... and at the worst times.

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    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    I actually wonder if it's more of a mid-20's thing?? I know of many others who have had some serious adjustment issues post-college, and coming to terms with having to work the rest of your life.... in fact in another forum I frequent an entire thread was devoted to it, entitled 'Quarter Life Crisis'. Personally I'm extremely happy my mid twenties are behind me, because I think they sucked. Not that it's that way for everyone, obviously. ;-P

    I know I went through a good 2-3 yrs of being seriously disillusioned and very anti-corporate, but I kinda worked through that stuff and now see things a bit differently.....

    Not that you're going through the exact same scenario, but anyway.

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    My one INTP friend in college had a humorous turn-around.

    He was a comp sci major, a hacker type (good-natured), never shaved or cut his hair, dressed like a slob, and his favorite pair of pants had a hole in them that he fixed by wrapping a piece of gray duct tape (!) the whole way around the thigh. He looked like he lived in a Dumpster, to be honest. And he would always rail against big business, large corporations, etc., too.

    And then a few years later, it turns out he wore slacks, a white shirt, and tie every day to the office, and made more money than just about anyone else, as a part of corporate America.

    (Needless to say, he was mercilessly ribbed for it. And there wasn't much he could do but laugh too...)
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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    Senior Member Roger Mexico's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schizm View Post
    I just now realized, at the age of 24, that my desire to rebel against the system caused me to miss a lot of opportunity. Several opportunities for development were sabotaged. Is this a common realization for INTP's(or INTJ's?) approaching their middle 20's?
    I would imagine it is. I'm in the thick of it, and the problem is that basic rationalizations don't work--sure, 'everybody goes through this,' but I'm not everybody. Every act in furtherance of socially-recognized goals (i.e. "get a job") feels like capitulation to something I've been fighting my whole life. I can almost see manifestations of the systemic logic I find to be hopelessly flawed, but there's no way out. You are expendable and insignificant. Eventually the crushing despair of poverty will become so intolerable that the nagging protests of the soul I'm auctioning off will just have to be drowned out with NPR and Ben Affleck movies.

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    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    Hmm, if it helps, I have two INTP friends who are anti-establishment in their own ways.

    One is a mostly self taught IT nerd who bought their own condo and has a respectable well-paying job but still donates such expertise to anti-establishment causes and groups. She can totally get away with her mad scientist wardrobe at work. IT and technology in general are great places to be INTP and 'anti-traditionalist'.

    My other INTP friend was able to fund her art schooling with a lucrative job in sales. She also put her 'T' to use working for anti-establishment establishments like bars and nightclubs bookkeeping for them and was pretty involved in the local music scene. And she originally dropped out of a traditional 4 year college. She's not one to go with the herd at all. But she has recently found a calling and is working towards a new career.

    There are lots of different gradations of being anti-establishment and many ways to avoid being a cog in the machine and yet still accomplish 'mainstream' things like owning property or getting married, etc.

    And some say 'capitulation' some say 'growing up and having different needs', you say 'toMAYtoe' I say 'toeMAHtoe', the internal struggle to be at peace with your material decisions in life is a personal one. But, I don't necessarily think that shifting gears is the same as selling out. There are still a lot of layers of gray within that whole realm of 'normative success'.

    And usually, you have to work WITHIN the system to really change it.

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    Well, it doesn't really make sense to me. I would think that if NT's are "logical," then they would take whatever the most logical course of action was for a given situation. Even if they realized that the organization of the system wasn't logical, wouldn't they still realize that it was more effective to work within it when they don't have the resources to actually do anything against it, and that sitting outside of it accomplishing nothing and acting unusual is just... pointless?

    And I mean, what's the point of just decrying the system? It's obviously there for a reason, and acting in the exact opposite direction isn't necessarily better, it's just trading one negative extreme for another. I'm not saying don't protest certain aspects, but you just have to "choose your battles," so to speak.

    Basically, I don't understand the idea of not liking the system just because it's "the system." I kind of understand working against it when there's an actual problem with a particular aspect of it, though.

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    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    I've honesly never been a rebel.
    I'm not a conformist by any means, but I'm not a rebel either.
    I'm often stupefied at the rebelious behavior of people I know, in fact.

    Maybe it's the type One in me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    Well, it doesn't really make sense to me. I would think that if NT's are "logical," then they would take whatever the most logical course of action was for a given situation. Even if they realized that the organization of the system wasn't logical, wouldn't they still realize that it was more effective to work within it when they don't have the resources to actually do anything against it, and that sitting outside of it accomplishing nothing and acting unusual is just... pointless?
    You should stop assuming that NTs are not people.

    We're rational. But we are still human. And we have feelings. So we act in ways that are not entirely rational sometimes.

    For INTPs, our first response is usually withdrawal from the offending system. (And I think this is what you do as well. Perhaps it is an INxx thing... or just an Ixxx thing. Or something else, but you get the point.)

    But the withdrawal can't be complete because (1) Ne shows us the potential of the system, what it COULD be at its most efficient/powerful, and (2) Ti shows us a better way, what the system SHOULD be rationally.

    So on one hand we feel powerless to change anything because people are just set in their ways and the system (the current one, the "inefficient" one) has a life of its own. It is like a monster. And yet we're compelled to engage.

    I think this is why it is important for INTPs to develop their extroverted functions. We need info from the outer world to be effective (Ne) and we need to be able to relate to people in constructive ways (Fe). Withdrawing usually leads to a Ti+Si combination which is destructive -- basically, griping about the system because it doesn't match what we think it should, without doing ANYTHING about it whatsoever.

    Basically, I don't understand the idea of not liking the system just because it's "the system." I kind of understand working against it when there's an actual problem with a particular aspect of it, though.
    You see bitching about "the system" more from ISTPs. INTPs tend to see things as more benign, not purposefully malignant. ISTPs tend to be more suspicious -- because they're engaging through Se (they more easily see the tangible effects, not the many possibilities of something), and the Ni thing suggests to them it's all about interpretation, so someone somewhere is spinning things to their advantage.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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