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[NT] -NTP, You Offer Advice...

fill

"Everything in its place"
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Ever felt you could be nice by tapping into your Fe and offering advice by asking a friend what's wrong? I have; I only do it when I feel comfortable with sharing such words with a person,
but I'm almost insulted when I'm turned down with a vague answer like, "nothing" or "I don't know" or "just... a lot of things." Sure, they don't want to talk about it- but why not just say that? It puts me at square one with someone immediately. To me it's as if they're saying, "I don't want your advice, just your pity," which I'm not really willing to give.

p.s. - this semi-rant is directed at an infp.
 

entropie

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I think its important to be yourself one day and be able to trust in the one you created. If you have that, it will not bug you no more when someone turns down an idea of yours.

There is no brilliant recipe to do that, my way to achieve it was: to not give a fuck no more:

[YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wS5xOZ7Rq8&feature=fvw"].[/YOUTUBE]
 

fill

"Everything in its place"
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haha, one of my favorites of his videos. I think it comes more with me forcing myself to do something in the prospect of actually helping someone instead of just staying quiet- doesn't work I guess. I'll go back to sitting by myself in my room blueprinting the future.

And I will take your advice. "Life has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously." - Hunter S. Thompson
 

Cypocalypse

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An INTPs discretion towards helping others can be discerning, especially if the other person's troubles aint that much of a big deal to begin with (pretty much like how an ESFP tells her problems).
 

CJ99

Is Willard in Footloose!!
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Ever felt you could be nice by tapping into your Fe and offering advice by asking a friend what's wrong? I have; I only do it when I feel comfortable with sharing such words with a person,
but I'm almost insulted when I'm turned down with a vague answer like, "nothing" or "I don't know" or "just... a lot of things." Sure, they don't want to talk about it- but why not just say that? It puts me at square one with someone immediately. To me it's as if they're saying, "I don't want your advice, just your pity," which I'm not really willing to give.

p.s. - this semi-rant is directed at an infp.

I thought most of those answers would be understood by an NT a group famous for ot being able to really grasp there emotions!
 

visaisahero

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Ever felt you could be nice by tapping into your Fe and offering advice...?

I might be wrong, but I believe that Fe has very little to do with problem-solving. Offering advice is quite a Te trait, isn't it?

To me it's as if they're saying, "I don't want your advice, just your pity," which I'm not really willing to give.

That IS what they're saying. If you're not willing to give it, then don't. As an NT, I think of advice-free pity as an investment in a relationship (be it with a friend, colleague, boss or in a romantic context). You give them what they want now, and they'll likely reciprocate the favour. I don't have a particularly large capacity for advice-free pity though, so I tend to save it for the circumstances in which it can have the strongest effect.

I have little to no pity for anybody who keeps asking for it without showing any signs of making any serious effort to solve their problems though. As a general rule, you have my pity if you got screwed up because of unforeseeable circumstances, but very little if you do it to yourself. I might yield if it were a one-off incident, but not if you regularly screw things up for yourself and expect nothing but pity. The only exception is when I think that it is personally beneficial for me to just play along, or rather, detrimental for me not to.

This does not apply to relationships in which I have a vested interest in the long-term well-being of the other person. In that circumstance, I've grown to believe that it's better to be frank and honest from the beginning so as to avoid creating a situation where the other party comes to expect something from you which you are generally not capable of providing- a recipe for disaster if I ever saw one.
 

Spamtar

Ghost Monkey Soul
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In general I don't like to give unsolicited advice. When I do I make it a point to manipulate the words of a conversation in such a way that they end up asking me to give them advice. With after a bit of convincing from them I eventually do. ;)

There are still a few who wish to be hard or smart asses. Thats fine to because when this becomes clear I don't want to help them anymore anyways.
 

teslashock

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Ever felt you could be nice by tapping into your Fe and offering advice by asking a friend what's wrong? I have; I only do it when I feel comfortable with sharing such words with a person,
but I'm almost insulted when I'm turned down...

Your Fe gives you the compassion to ask somebody what's wrong, but you should also expand your Fe to know when to ask and to whom to ask it.

You can't exactly take it personally if somebody doesn't want to confide in you with their problems. That's arrogant and victimizing. It may take a lot of effort for you to ask somebody what's wrong, but the people to whom you ask it don't know this. You can't expect them to feel honored just because you show a little compassion.

...with a vague answer like, "nothing" or "I don't know" or "just... a lot of things." Sure, they don't want to talk about it- but why not just say that?

You should realize that "nothing" and "I don't know" are indirect ways of saying "I don't want to talk about it." Not everybody is as straightforward and blunt as NTPs, and not everybody wants to be. You find it annoying that others are subtle, but did you ever stop to think that those who are subtle find it annoying that you value blunt, direct communication?

To me it's as if they're saying, "I don't want your advice, just your pity," which I'm not really willing to give.


And when people are upset, sometimes they do just want a confidante that will receive and absorb their emotions. They don't always want advice and input, but just someone to know that they are down. Some times it's more helpful to be a sponge than a ping-pong paddle.
I know as NTP you want to analyze a situation and offer critique, but that's not always what people want to hear, and you can't force them to want to hear it. Something to keep in mind...
 

avolkiteshvara

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Here it is:

jesus-offering-his-hand-jaison-cianelli.jpg
 

Spamtar

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For some reason that version of Jesus scares me. He looks like he wants to make me his bitch. :horor:
 

fill

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I have little to no pity for anybody who keeps asking for it without showing any signs of making any serious effort to solve their problems though. As a general rule, you have my pity if you got screwed up because of unforeseeable circumstances, but very little if you do it to yourself. I might yield if it were a one-off incident, but not if you regularly screw things up for yourself and expect nothing but pity. The only exception is when I think that it is personally beneficial for me to just play along, or rather, detrimental for me not to.

This is the type of person I happen to be dealing with right now; I'll say something like, "Well, I hope you feel better" if they refuse to talk about what is bothering them, but when it's a constant bad mood + negative side comments, I start threads like these.

You can't exactly take it personally if somebody doesn't want to confide in you with their problems. That's arrogant and victimizing. It may take a lot of effort for you to ask somebody what's wrong, but the people to whom you ask it don't know this. You can't expect them to feel honored just because you show a little compassion.

You're very right. Read my response to visaisahero, and the situation is put a little more in context. I can see how my post would make one assume I think this way in every situation, which is the opposite of how I think; sorry for not clarifying this from the start.

You find it annoying that others are subtle, but did you ever stop to think that those who are subtle find it annoying that you value blunt, direct communication?

That's a really good question; I need to think about that.

You should realize that "nothing" and "I don't know" are indirect ways of saying "I don't want to talk about it." Not everybody is as straightforward and blunt as NTPs, and not everybody wants to be.

More context: an INFP friend was saying she was having a bad day, walking slowly, saying she was depressed, wallowing in her gloom; I asked what was wrong, and she said she didn't know. I asked our ESFP friend what was going on, and she said, "a lot of things." I believe I felt I was left 'out of the loop'- that I wasn't a reliable person to talk about things with, especially since I've spent a lot of time with both of these people discussing personal troubles of my own. Jaded is a good word to describe how I felt.

After thinking it through more: if she wants to leave me out of her personal life, fine. She won't hear of mine, either. Maybe that's a selfish prospect. I don't know. Give/give relationships don't happen with me anymore- also, I believe if she asked me the same question while I was in a bad mood, she would say, "if you don't talk about it, it's not going to get solved!"

I feel the only way to cope with people is to not take them seriously.
 

teslashock

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I believe I felt I was left 'out of the loop'- that I wasn't a reliable person to talk about things with, especially since I've spent a lot of time with both of these people discussing personal troubles of my own. Jaded is a good word to describe how I felt.

After thinking it through more: if she wants to leave me out of her personal life, fine. She won't hear of mine, either. Maybe that's a selfish prospect. I don't know. Give/give relationships don't happen with me anymore- also, I believe if she asked me the same question while I was in a bad mood, she would say, "if you don't talk about it, it's not going to get solved!"

You act like her sharing her problems with you is a way for you to feel personally validated. That's a bit twisted imo. It's her problem, and if she doesn't want to share it with you, then you can't see that as an insult. Just because you are comfortable enough with her to treat her as a confidante doesn't mean she feels the same way. She grants you a favor by listening to your issues; I doubt she sees this as you granting her a favor by sharing yourself with her.

She apparently talks to somebody about her problems; it's just not you, and you seem to take that personally for reasons that don't make much sense. Just be receptive when there's something for you to receive; don't try to squeeze people's problems out of them. That seems pretty intrusive and obnoxious.
 

fill

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You act like her sharing her problems with you is a way for you to feel personally validated. That's a bit twisted imo. It's her problem, and if she doesn't want to share it with you, then you can't see that as an insult. Just because you are comfortable enough with her to treat her as a confidante doesn't mean she feels the same way. She grants you a favor by listening to your issues; I doubt she sees this as you granting her a favor by sharing yourself with her.

I think this was because we had a very trustful, mutual sharing of personal thoughts, and when I was left out of this, I felt I lost someone to get things out of my system with.

She apparently talks to somebody about her problems; it's just not you, and you seem to take that personally for reasons that don't make much sense. Just be receptive when there's something for you to receive; don't try to squeeze people's problems out of them. That seems pretty intrusive and obnoxious.

I understand now.

We had a long talk just now, and things are fine. It turns out she doesn't want pity, just understanding, something we hadn't really been doing lately, just throwing out things we were frustrated about. Does that make sense? Our ESTP friend (I've now concluded) was- simply by the matching of types- obviously someone she could relate to more easily.
 
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