[INTJ] Meh, I need you INTJs and your...help

[Antimony]

I don't like asking for help. I don't really like openly asking for advice.

Alas, measures call for it.


INTJs, how the hell do you get motivated?

My INTJ emotional attachment has made a very stupid decision of late, all because he did not want to write a ballad. He has absolutely no academic motivation, and I don't want him to screw up his life. It endangers his seeing me, and I, being selfish, don't want that. I want to be able to see him. I get to see him maybe...once every two weeks. He has lied to me on several occasions, and this time has lied by omission. I don't like being lied to (who does?)

I just can't figure out what to do. I don't want to lecture him on how irrational this is (I hate lectures. I hate being lectured). But I want this out, if not for his sake, then for my own selfish desires.

p.s. I can't let him self destruct while I sit back and watch.

 

[SecantSquared]

you's a meanie. and for the record, i am completely objective.

 

[Antimony]

you's a meanie.

Says the emotional attachment of mine^^^

 

[Oaky]

He is unmotivated because he is uninterested. If I am interested in something I will do well in it. If I am not interested in something I don't really care about it unless my future is strongly affected. I suggest you make him curious. It is easy to make us curious. Say something like "You... nevermind". We will want to know what you were going to say. Pretend you have a secret you know about him and he will comply to your needs a bit easier in order to gain the info about him you are hiding.

 

[Antimony]

I need to motivate him to do his damn school work. And his future will be strongly affected, more than likely. He is a senior now in high school, and I say it matters I guess.

And sometimes it is hard to figure out if he is hiding something from me, when I don't know what to ask in the first place because he hides it completely.

 

[Bri]

I need to motivate him to do his damn school work.

(I know this is a bit old, so you can ignore this if you've already solved this.)

Why? Why do you need to motivate him to do his school work?

Have you ever been in a position where, while you know you should do something, the fact that someone else is trying to make you do it makes you stubbornly avoid it?

My college roommate used to try and mother me about school stuff. She'd ask if I had done my homework yet, remind me of tests that were coming up, etc. I found it really invasive! Why were my study habits any of her business? She gave me a harder time than my own parents, so it was really weird! I eventually had to be direct and just say "Stop! Don't push your expectations on me! I need to do it my way, not your way." There was a lot less stress in our dorm room after that.

 

[poppy]

Wuhlp, what were his grades like for the previous couple years? As a senior I did next to nothing...but I managed to pull B's and C's. There was really nothing that could have motivated me to try harder. Anyway I was just going to state school and I did well enough on the SAT that I knew I'd have no problem getting in.

My advice: If he doesn't have any plans to go to Stanford or Harvard or what have you, let him be a slacker.

 

[InvisibleJim]

Antimony, you are doing it all wrong.

Remove the expectation... relax to perform.

INTJs dont really need told what to do, but when you harp on we do dig our heels in (just because) you just need to soothe us and we do the rest.

 

[highlander]

You can provide ideas and point of view. You can compliment and support. You can inspire by letting them know the benefits that will accrue to them and have them think about things they haven't considered. You can provide evidence to support your point of view. You can smile and encourage. You can tell them how much you love them. All these are welcomed.

But you can never, ever, make an INTJ do something they don't want to do. If you nag in a critical way, you will be unsuccessful.

The best person to ask this question of is an ENFP.

 

[Antimony]

^ Yeah, I was just pretty pissed when I found out he skipped school for two weeks to avoid this project. It is better now, he is doing work, all that stuff. I know that my place is not to nag, and I am really no good at doing it. I just let him know I love him. I play up the fun side. No problems.

Bri: no way do I nag him. I ask him. I hate nagging. Biggest pet peeve. My main issue was the lying I guess, because I figured if he would just do his work, he wouldn't need to lie. But no, I don't push any expectations on him for his work. Now I am even more slack. I kind of let him do his own thing. I remind him of nothing, and never have. No way did I want to be pushing. That is a horrible idea.

Poppy: I am doing that, now.

InvisibleJim: my only expectation is to not be lied to. I have always pretty much played relaxer for him. The guy gets kinda uptight sometimes. I don't want people to think I nagged him. That is idiotic.

 

[Litvyak]

INTJ with no avademic motivation? That's something very strange for me, almost paradoxical.

 

[Antimony]

Yeah, he generally has no motivation for his work. Now, with electronics, computer stuff, etc, he is motivated...but it seems only when it is directly with something he likes doing.

 

[InvisibleJim]

InvisibleJim: my only expectation is to not be lied to. I have always pretty much played relaxer for him. The guy gets kinda uptight sometimes. I don't want people to think I nagged him. That is idiotic.

Chill dude, this is just how we feel when people say such things to us. Hopefully you can empathise.

 

[Antimony]

Chill dude, this is just how we feel when people say such things to us. Hopefully you can empathise.

Oh, I am chill, I am sorry if I didn't come across like that

I understand what you are saying, and do empathize, which is why I was saying I was avoiding saying things like that.

 

[ObeyBunny]

I don't know what to do either......

My INTJ emotional attachment has made a very stupid decision of late, all because he did not want to write a ballad. He has absolutely no academic motivation, and I don't want him to screw up his life.

It endangers his seeing me, and I, being selfish, don't want that. I want to be able to see him. I get to see him maybe...once every two weeks. He has lied to me on several occasions, and this time has lied by omission. I don't like being lied to (who does?)

I'm probably about to give you some terrible advice but... Here you go.

1. Sit him down, and ask him: "if you don't want to do well in school, get a degree, get a diploma, etc. Then what IS your plan for excelling in life?"
   
2. Find someone who you know he hates who didn't do well in school, and say: "I don't want you to end up like (name of other person). Please, don't give up on an education."
   
3. Ask him: "Well, maybe you're not interested in this field. What would you like to be doing instead (that requires a decent education)?" Remember, there's a 4 year college for everything- even farming. If your friend is a high-school student who doesn't care for his teachers or their lectures, you could always say "Bite the bullet for now, it will be over in X-number of years. Then you can pursue the kind of field you are interested in. Remember, it's a lot harder to get excepted into (what ever your friend is interested in) without a high-school diploma."
   
4. Find a sneaky way of showing him this thread.

It may be as simple as the activities he's doing in school aren't fun, or he doesn't like the teachers, or he disagrees with the philosophy they’re teaching.

I hope this helps.

 

[Antimony]

Haha, it may have helped...if I lived near him! I don't know who he hates at all, but then, he doesn't talk about interpersonal things. Still, he has been doing his work

(He lives a few hours away from me, and sees me roughly every two weeks...if he does his work and gets decent grades).

But thank you for your help

I am trying to convince him to become a singer, an architect, or some designer of something...or working with computers. He finds it amusing that I point out these things, because whenever I bring one up he goes "you know, I wouldn't mind doing that".

Except for singing. Too introverted.

 

[Shimmy]

No behaviour ever comes from bad intentions. Try to keep that in mind when communicating with him. It may not be obvious to you, but your 'emotional attachment' is skipping his school work for a reason.

I don't know exactly what you should do, but I do know that when trying to convince someone you should always communicate from their point of view rather than your own.

One last thing, emotions are all the reason a person needs to behave in a certain way, this goes even for the most detached INTJ's. So don't expect him to come up with a perfectly logical reason as for why he isn't doing his schoolwork. Now here's the difficult part, if the cause of his behaviour doesn't make sense to you, don't expect the answer to make sense either.

And with that rather psychological note I leave you. Goodnight and thank you for reading.

 

[IntrovertedWorld]

Send him to a democratic school.

 

[Red October]

He is unmotivated because he is uninterested. If I am interested in something I will do well in it. If I am not interested in something I don't really care about it unless my future is strongly affected. I suggest you make him curious.

I'm an INTJ, and just graduated high school, and I couldn't disagree with this more.

Who needs interest? Half the fun in life is accomplishing things, especially things others can't do because they cop out saying they are not interested. I wasn't born being good at math, but when I noticed my fellow students started having trouble and hating math, I saw an opportunity to get an upper hand. I also realized I didn't want to join the crowd of typical people who can't handle math. I always hear adults say "Oh I wasn't a math person." I think "BS. None of us where, just most of us didn't want to try harder at something they didn't easily understand."

Tell him this, any idiot can not want to write a ballad. Not everyone can find the motivation out of no where to work hard to make a great ballad. What crowd does he want to join? Does he want to be like every other weak and pathetic kid who can't find motivation? Or does he want to achieve, and do what not everyone can do? This is what motivates me. Anytime I'm slacking off, I think any idiot can slack off, and I don't want to be more connected to those idiots. So I work harder and do it.

I just finished my senior year, and only had a couple As, everything else was an A+, and I'm damn proud I didn't slack off like any punk can. I loved senior year, it was so much fun as well. I was in a very artistic writing class, and I'm no writer and the first few days I realized I'm going to hate it. I contemplated half assing my way through that class.

Then I thought, what the hell. Whats the point of turning in crap work and running from a challenge. So I thought long and hard on all my papers, and ended up getting a lot of fame from my writing and presentations. People started looking forward to my work, and that is a great feeling to have.

Ask him, does he want to join the legion of idiots out there? I know I didn't. Its an issue of self respect IMO.

Also, try not motivating. My parents were total laissez faire, and that worked. Because when you force your kid to get a B, getting a B is the bare minimum. Doing so gives no feeling of accomplishment. They felt like they were forced to get the B, so it isn't their accomplishment, it makes them feel controlled. Or at least that's how I interpreted it.

Mind you, my harsh language is not for real. I'm just throwing out harsh phrases you can say to this kid. I don't really think people are stupid punks if they slack off their senior year, most of my friends did. Really, don't be offended by this post. I'm just trying to make it all rah rah drill Sargent/motivational speaker, because that is what is needed here.

 

[Antimony]

I'm abducting my own thread and turning it into a minor rant:

My INTJ has a lot of work. I understand. But it is beginning to interfere seriously with the relationship, in my opinion. Maybe not in his (I don't really know what an INTJ would think concerning this). The last two times I have seen him, it has been three weeks in between. When I chat on the phone with him, he spends a nice amount of time conversing with his family members.

I have expressed my sentiments clearly, and multiple times. I am not one to get offended easily and whatnot from a lack of contact, but this is getting bothersome. I like talking to people I like. So why must it seem like he is becoming distant? I don't doubt his like for me, but I am beginning to think that maybe he has too much work with college to be with me.

It is all very annoying, because I can't find a black and white answer to this situation.