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  1. #11
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Owl View Post
    from here



    Did Einstein, Newton, and Leibniz suck at life?

    INTP's lay the theoretical foundations of disciplines and practices, and, just like the foundation of a building, our work is unseen and unsung--yet without our contribution the edifices of practice couldn't get off the ground let alone provide shelter for the body and mind.
    Leibniz, Newton and Einstein lived in an era when men were not expected to cook, clean their room or mend their socks. Indeed, they could not.
    Apropos men were safe. In every stand and class and environment.

    The women of stand and higher classes were safe, too.

    It was only the poorer women who had to clean and attend to their socks. But there were no INTPs among them.

    Meanwhile, something has happened. Society is not what it used to be.
    Times are bad. This is an understatement.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    I read this thread, it's almost entirely observations, notes, and anecdotes. You can't observe your problems away.

    If you have a problem doing things, then you need to change the way you do things.
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

  3. #13

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    ^I never mentioned anything about having trouble doing something. I was merely stating my displeasure at a particular statement common in INTP profiles, wondering if there was any truth do it, wanting to have that statement not apply to me, and asking how to have the opposite statement apply to me based on INTP strengths.

    Nevertheless, I am interested in why you think I have trouble doing particular things. What gave you that impression?

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  4. #14
    desert pelican Owl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    That's the thing. How many of us INTPs are actually laying down the theoretical foundations of disciplines or practices? Are you? I certainly am not.

    I work a job that I am only partially interested in, and seem to be mediocre at that.

    Lebniz, Newton, and Einstein all had major accomplishments while quite young. I don't think the same goes for most INTPs (plus Newton seems like an INTJ to me) But I believe I know what your alluding to. Newton and Einstein were both "failures at life" (exaggeration) very early on...not sure about Lebniz.

    ...

    But, in my mind at least, I am still searching for my calling. I want to go back to school for a Ph.D. in something research-oriented, quantitative, and "important." I am sick of being a code/circuit monkey for some companies bottom-line.
    Paul made tents. You write code. (And writing code is very practical--but most people don't understand the nature of your practice.) You're going back to school to study what... physics, right? Research oriented. Foundational. How many INTP's are laying the theoretical foundations? All of them, just as you and I are. Perhaps neither of us will be the first to make a foundational discovery, (think Leibniz, Newton, and calculus), but it's in our nature to continually pursue foundational, basic questions; we're driven to do it, and we experience an ennui if we aren't engaged in the advancement of this sort of understanding; and as we deepen our understanding, we pass this understanding to others who then put what we've discovered into practice.

    What do you think of teaching as a profession?

    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    Leibniz, Newton and Einstein lived in an era when men were not expected to cook, clean their room or mend their socks. Indeed, they could not.
    Apropos men were safe. In every stand and class and environment.

    The women of stand and higher classes were safe, too.

    It was only the poorer women who had to clean and attend to their socks. But there were no INTPs among them.

    Meanwhile, something has happened. Society is not what it used to be.
    Times are bad. This is an understatement.
    I eat beans out of a can, my room is a mess, and most of my socks have holes. Times are bad.

  5. #15
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post

    I suppose I was thinking of the word "practical" in more broad terms.

    I took the description to mean that INTPs are usually not good at anything of actual use.
    Very broad terms indeed!

    Depends whose criteria you are judging yourself by. You sound like you are using an SJ standard.

    We are good at many things. (I am, anyway )
    It's just that not everyone is equipped to understand our value or potential.


    Have you seen this thread?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  6. #16
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    If you are adequate at the basic requirements of life, there's no reason why you have to be amazing at all the mundane stuff. Most of it isn't super important in the great scheme of things. My impression of INTPs is that they have a drive for competence in the things that matter most to them and it serves them, and those who depend upon them very well. It's kind of crazy to waste that energy on stuff that other people think is important if it's not all that important to you (unless the other people are your boss, your clients, or your immediate family).
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  7. #17
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    ^I never mentioned anything about having trouble doing something. I was merely stating my displeasure at a particular statement common in INTP profiles, wondering if there was any truth do it, wanting to have that statement not apply to me, and asking how to have the opposite statement apply to me based on INTP strengths.

    Nevertheless, I am interested in why you think I have trouble doing particular things. What gave you that impression?
    I hate that statement on the list. I hate it even more because it might be true. I desperately want that statement to not apply to me. How do I make that happen? How do I make use of my INTP strengths to ensure I am GOOD at practical matters?
    This statement did. And I was answering this question.

    ...how was I supposed to interpret that?
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

  8. #18
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    If you are adequate at the basic requirements of life, there's no reason why you have to be amazing at all the mundane stuff. Most of it isn't super important in the great scheme of things. My impression of INTPs is that they have a drive for competence in the things that matter most to them and it serves them, and those who depend upon them very well. It's kind of crazy to waste that energy on stuff that other people think is important if it's not all that important to you (unless the other people are your boss, your clients, or your immediate family).
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Spamtar - a strange combination of boorish drunkeness and erudite discussions, or what I call "an Irish academic"

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Owl View Post
    Paul made tents. You write code. (And writing code is very practical--but most people don't understand the nature of your practice.) You're going back to school to study what... physics, right? Research oriented. Foundational. How many INTP's are laying the theoretical foundations? All of them, just as you and I are. Perhaps neither of us will be the first to make a foundational discovery, (think Leibniz, Newton, and calculus), but it's in our nature to continually pursue foundational, basic questions; we're driven to do it, and we experience an ennui if we aren't engaged in the advancement of this sort of understanding; and as we deepen our understanding, we pass this understanding to others who then put what we've discovered into practice.
    I kinda get what you are saying. I think my current problem is that I am not learning very much on the job. Also, I haven't gotten to the point of sharing my understanding with other, though I would really like to...especially in the form of some invention or novel discovery.

    Quote Originally Posted by Owl View Post
    What do you think of teaching as a profession?
    I think I would enjoy being a professor. I would probably like teaching, but I think I need some time to do my own research.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    Very broad terms indeed!

    Depends whose criteria you are judging yourself by. You sound like you are using an SJ standard.

    We are good at many things. (I am, anyway )
    It's just that not everyone is equipped to understand our value or potential.


    Have you seen this thread?
    I am half-way decent at a few things (circuit design, programming, school math, school physics). The problem is I get bored with activities and want to try something different.

    I checked out the thread. I may even be counted as "financially successful" (so far) but I am rather bored with my current station in life, and am looking to make a major change...a change that will most likely take a decade to make.

    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    If you are adequate at the basic requirements of life, there's no reason why you have to be amazing at all the mundane stuff. Most of it isn't super important in the great scheme of things. My impression of INTPs is that they have a drive for competence in the things that matter most to them and it serves them, and those who depend upon them very well. It's kind of crazy to waste that energy on stuff that other people think is important if it's not all that important to you (unless the other people are your boss, your clients, or your immediate family).
    I am wondering prompted my question in the first place. There was something substantive on my mind when I asked it. It wasn't about disliking or having trouble doing mundane things.

    I think it is mainly a feeling of being marginalized because people perceive my approach to things being "too theoretical."

    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboo View Post
    This statement did. And I was answering this question.

    ...how was I supposed to interpret that?
    I guess it was more to avoid a possibility than any particular fact in reality. I get where you are coming from, though.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  10. #20
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    I am wondering prompted my question in the first place. There was something substantive on my mind when I asked it. It wasn't about disliking or having trouble doing mundane things.

    I think it is mainly a feeling of being marginalized because people perceive my approach to things being "too theoretical."
    Seems to be a matter of taste, then, I guess. You can't really control other people's perceptions.

    If your approach works and it's not terribly inefficient, then even if you spend more time addressing theory than the average person, you are still getting the job done.

    Not thinking a lot about something and just doing it can be efficient, but sometimes actually thinking about what you are doing and considering the theoretical stuff can be even more efficient, if you come up with a better way to do it. It's also more fun than just plodding along like a pre-programed meat robot.

    OTOH, if you are having to communicate your ideas/processes to others, being more concrete and simple can be helpful. You just have to invest some time into dumbing things down. My INTP is actually better at that than I am which is why I refer the kids to him for questions that involve science/theory.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

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