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  1. #71
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    I think the base/core of a lot of your views are not explored in depths as to the whys. Rather, they are to answer: who, what, when, where, and how. You may be scared of figuring out the whys. Or, if you do acknowledge the whys, and, they leave a bad taste in your mouth, then you're just as quick to rationalize it away...a lot of 'but...'
    The why is my Fi. I stated in another thread that ENTJ's are much more secretive about their convictions than their ideas.

    I know why I believe what I believe. It took me a while to figure that out, but my progress this far has been encouraging.

    You want to challenge more than be challenge.
    I'd prefer to be challenged. I've found that the only REAL challenge, comes from being challenged, and winning the argument on their grounds as opposed to calling others out.

    You want to be seen as a pillar of strength, not only physically but in character and morality, and I think you're so enamoured with this perception of yours, that anything that might challenge that raises defensiveness in you.
    This action undermines the very thing you hope to convey about yourself.
    Maybe my reasons for making this thread were actually noble. Maybe I'm so unaware of the way I affect others, that I needed a thread to figure out how to improve myself in that regard.

    EDIT: I would be lying if I said I didn't enjoy the attention this thread is bringing me. But, I enjoy this attention b/c it is positive and constructive hence what don't you like about me as opposed to tell me why I'm awesome.

    This defensiveness curbs you from being honest. I had to amp up my assholishness and aggressiveness and that's when I started to see the honest answers. It's probably because it conflicts with your need for social desirability. I don't think you caught on, but, I told you a few times, initially, 'you shouldn't HAVE to answer [to me]. I.e., call it, if it's making you that uncomfortable, just say you don't want to answer' (if you said that, I couldn't have pushed you any further, as that was an honest answer, and it would have closed the case)....but your 'wanting to challenge' coupled with social desirability (don't want others reading to see you've 'given up') made you keep going. Until you were cornered into being honest. Know what it is you want to convey rather than trying to answer so what you really don't want to convey is not shown. Inevitably, you'll come across people who'll sniff out this latter contradiction.
    Maybe I just have a hard time trusting random internet people with the intricate details of who I am.

    Especially when those details explain that some of my family members are racist.

    What do you want known. Take that. Understand that. Own that. Say that.

    What you don't want known. Figure out why you don't want them known. And the root causes of that.
    I think I'm gonna just learn to be more discerning with who I let into my world.

    You're still young, don't be so stuck on 'the ways you are expected to be', but concentrate more on what YOU could be. Take away all other big influences from your life. See you as your bare bones.
    I'm on the way to being who I'm supposed to be.

  2. #72
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    When I used to blog here a ways back about some trials I was undergoing in life, I remember once being somewhat offended by someone who (kindly, but still bluntly) suggested that I was trying to present myself as a brave noble person in how I told my story because it would feed my need to be seen as brave and noble and get me the strokes I desired.

    That wasn't my primary purpose in blogging, but I decided later there was some truth to it. I knew what I was trying to do and be in my life, and I knew how I wanted to be perceived, but I badly wanted others to affirm me in it so that I could accept it as true about myself. It fed my need to be affirmed a certain way.

    The way we tell our story and ask for help and present questions is sometimes a hook into getting the sort of response we unconsciously desire, especially if our sense of self has not yet been strongly internalized.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #73
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    The why is my Fi. I stated in another thread that ENTJ's are much more secretive about their convictions than their ideas.

    I know why I believe what I believe. It took me a while to figure that out, but my progress this far has been encouraging.
    It's not simply answering why you believe what you believe, but, whether you then rationalize it away after. Believing why you believe what you believe, and then finding rationalizations for why that should be so, gives the belief a sense of complacency.


    I'd prefer to be challenged. I've found that the only REAL challenge, comes from being challenged, and winning the argument on their grounds as opposed to calling others out.
    I'd wager it's only with certain things, that you want to be challenged - things where being challenged is something you actually want/is fun. For things that you don't want/don't like...you'd rather play the offensive, challenge, rather than be challenged.

    Maybe my reasons for making this thread were actually noble.
    What's wrong if the reason for starting a personal thread isn't a noble cause? Why do you want it asserted that it was a noble cause?

    Maybe I just have a hard time trusting random internet people with the intricate details of who I am.
    That's a smart thought. Which is why I said, don't be so easy to rise to the bait of others, when you could have bowed out way before, if not for your arrogance.

    I think I'm gonna just learn to be more discerning with who I let into my world.
    Very good idea. Esp. if you wanna get into politics; in all seriousness, you never know what shyte can be used against you in the future.

    Hence, know what you want to convey. And, stick to that. The rest, keep for yourself and those you trust.


    I'm on the way to being who I'm supposed to be.
    How is anyone supposed to be anything? What does that mean?

  4. #74
    Member astroninja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    I wanna hear it all.

    All the tough things you think you shouldn't say.

    Tell them to me so I may become a better person.

    This thread can be used by anyone who wants to know where they can improve themselves.
    I don't know you cause I'm a noob on these forums but if I can be so bold

    1) The fact that you started this thread shows you care a little too much what people think of you. Just go with the flow and swallow the mojo! You remind me of someone at a party who's wearing his party hat and having to make sure it's sitting straight so as to not look goofy when the whole point is to be just that.

    2) The avatar

    Other than that, I wouldn't know well enough to comment fairly.

  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    When I used to blog here a ways back about some trials I was undergoing in life, I remember once being somewhat offended by someone who (kindly, but still bluntly) suggested that I was trying to present myself as a brave noble person in how I told my story because it would feed my need to be seen as brave and noble and get me the strokes I desired.

    That wasn't my primary purpose in blogging, but I decided later there was some truth to it. I knew what I was trying to do and be in my life, and I knew how I wanted to be perceived, but I badly wanted others to affirm me in it so that I could accept it as true about myself. It fed my need to be affirmed a certain way.

    The way we tell our story and ask for help and present questions is sometimes a hook into getting the sort of response we unconsciously desire, especially if our sense of self has not yet been strongly internalized.
    This.

    I mean I think I'll end up better off for having made this thread, and heard some hard things about who I am, than if I had not made it, and people thought I was slightly less self serving.

  6. #76
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    This.

    I mean I think I'll end up better off for having made this thread, and heard some hard things about who I am, than if I had not made it, and people thought I was slightly less self serving.
    Takign this approach is very ENTJ... scarily brutal on yourselfs.... I'd not be brave enough for that much srutiny

  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    Takign this approach is very ENTJ... scarily brutal on yourselfs.... I'd not be brave enough for that much srutiny
    It takes all kinds.

  8. #78
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    I'd wager it's only with certain things, that you want to be challenged - things where being challenged is something you actually want/is fun. For things that you don't want/don't like...you'd rather play the offensive, challenge, rather than be challenged.
    Here is a description of an 8w9 that explains how I feel about challenges.

    They are more grounded and unmovable but they can get aggressive in a hurry if provoked. They are natural defenders who focus on solidifying structures as opposed to tearing them down and starting anew.

    They believe the best defense is to be well-fortified. They don't believe in preemptive aggression. They wait for the enemy to strike first and are natural counterpunchers. Their style of dominance is to endure whatever you throw at them and gradually steamroll you. They delight in pushing their weight against you and making you feel their physical presence. They are more "I am unbreakable and will steadily wear you down".
    The bolded probably had something to do with making this thread.

    EDIT: You say I don't like to be challenged, then why did I create a thread giving the entire forum carte blanche to do just that.

  9. #79
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    The bolded probably had something to do with making this thread.

    They are more grounded and unmovable but they can get aggressive in a hurry if provoked. They are natural defenders who focus on solidifying structures as opposed to tearing them down and starting anew.

    They believe the best defense is to be well-fortified. They don't believe in preemptive aggression. They wait for the enemy to strike first and are natural counterpunchers. Their style of dominance is to endure whatever you throw at them and gradually steamroll you. They delight in pushing their weight against you and making you feel their physical presence. They are more "I am unbreakable and will steadily wear you down".
    How far off was I?

    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    You want to be seen as a pillar of strength, not only physically but in character and morality, and I think you're so enamoured with this perception of yours, that anything that might challenge that raises defensiveness in you.
    This action [meaning: defensiveness, not creating this thread] undermines the very thing you hope to convey about yourself.
    Maybe I shouldn't have stated the negatives of what such an approach brings, but, should have been like the Enneagram descriptor and given the positive spin on it.

    But, I was going by the title [purpose] of the thread.

  10. #80
    Member astroninja's Avatar
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    I do not believe that anybody here would make the best judge of your character, simply because it's the Internet, and all of us are bound to limit what we reveal here. You're more than the words you put in these forums, and you know it, so the only thing anyone can comment on is the facet of yourself you choose to reveal here.

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