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Thread: INTJ and ENTJ

  1. #41
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    Please note I changed my username because it was a bit too easily recognisable. New one is also linkable to me but at least not at first glance. A person would have to know me very well in first place to be able to link me now .

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    Called ENTJ for some advise on something at work. Refered me to her company's website and said she had to dash. I guess the axe swinged.

    But this is my view:

    Some (e.g. ENTJs)are so convinced their view is the only right view that they will turn on you if you don't support their views. You are better off without such people! Blind allegiance has never been my forte

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kambro View Post
    Called ENTJ for some advise on something at work. Refered me to her company's website and said she had to dash. I guess the axe swinged.

    But this is my view:

    Some (e.g. ENTJs)are so convinced their view is the only right view that they will turn on you if you don't support their views. You are better off without such people! Blind allegiance has never been my forte
    Don't blame you. I don't waste my time chasing after people. I support loyalty, not blind allegiance - I don't believe anyone can just treat me any way he or she likes. Oh well, sorry about your loss but there are billions of other people out there. Good luck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    Don't blame you. I don't waste my time chasing after people. I support loyalty, not blind allegiance - I don't believe anyone can just treat me any way he or she likes. Oh well, sorry about your loss but there are billions of other people out there. Good luck.
    Thanks I know - my objectivity can see where someone is wrong and loyalty cannot make me say "yes you right when you are wrong". Unfortunately made it seem like I was defending the guy.

    Oh well - I'll get my ENTJ's via this forum vicariously - LOL

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kambro View Post
    But this is my view:

    Some (e.g. ENTJs)are so convinced their view is the only right view that they will turn on you if you don't support their views. You are better off without such people! Blind allegiance has never been my forte
    The sense of irony when I read this... oh boy.

    I would've done what you did, i.e. "I don't want to hear it because I'd rather hear anything related to her from herself" with that guy-friend. But I would've also defended her and pointed out that he is sleazy and a gossip for talking behind her back. My Fi is pretty well-developed and I can see her pov too. It is unsurprising that she responded emotionally - how would you feel if you were in her shoes? i.e. if he told her lies about your past relationships with people, even if he didn't really know the situation, and all she said was "I don't want to hear it" and considered the matter closed? Would you really have known how she felt about the lies? Would you have known if she believed the lies? Responding emotionally to people-issues makes it authentic and real. Responding "logically" to people-issues makes you seem like you're not all that invested (and therefore insincere and that you don't care all that much).

    Just a few thoughts. Also, your accusation that she doesn't listen to "logic" despite being an ENTJ is ridiculous. Of course people aren't logical, even if they're NTs. In my experience, logic is only useful when it supplements what you want to hear and/or your self-image. i.e. you are only "logical" in this case because it "supports" your view. You'd be just as stubborn and find other "logical reasons" to support the opposite if you felt that way.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kambro View Post

    Some (e.g. ENTJs)are so convinced their view is the only right view that they will turn on you if you don't support their views. You are better off without such people! Blind allegiance has never been my forte
    I'd say that is very accurate. And yea, she has axed you. Just let that coo-coo bird fly away .

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    Quote Originally Posted by nonsequitur View Post
    Just a few thoughts. Also, your accusation that she doesn't listen to "logic" despite being an ENTJ is ridiculous. Of course people aren't logical, even if they're NTs. In my experience, logic is only useful when it supplements what you want to hear and/or your self-image. i.e. you are only "logical" in this case because it "supports" your view. You'd be just as stubborn and find other "logical reasons" to support the opposite if you felt that way.
    People use logic and rationality is it pertains to what is useful/beneficial to themselves, even if that is merely for underlying psychological purposes (such as supporting a confirmation bias or one's own ego/self image). However, human beings make perfectly rational and logical decisions according to the situation. The two of them had an altogether different rationale, so neither is really right or wrong. The only place they can be wrong is in assuming things about the other person, in which case their beliefs can be illogical, and their actions/judgments irrational. It's a case of poor heuristics. She was not acting effectively to perceive the situation for its true form in the present, and was making poor attributions likely based on past personal judgments and experiences that have nothing to do with him, and led her to inaccurate conclusions. It seems to be an Fi thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    People use logic and rationality is it pertains to what is useful/beneficial to themselves, even if that is merely for underlying psychological purposes (such as supporting a confirmation bias or one's own ego/self image). However, human beings make perfectly rational and logical decisions according to the situation. The two of them had an altogether different rationale, so neither is really right or wrong.
    I think neither should have to apologise for responding as they did, but I do think that better communication would've been a lot more helpful instead of claims of "she was being illogical and therefore it's her fault!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    The only place they can be wrong is in assuming things about the other person, in which case their beliefs can be illogical, and their actions/judgments irrational.

    It's a case of poor heuristics. She was not acting effectively to perceive the situation for its true form in the present, and was making poor attributions likely based on past personal judgments and experiences that have nothing to do with him, and led her to inaccurate conclusions. It seems to be an Fi thing.
    I'm addressing the second part of this. How do you know that she was not acting effectively to perceive the situation for its true form in the present and was making assumptions about him? You are making assumptions here about her.

    From her actions, it's quite obvious to me that she tried, systematically and reasonably, to address the problem directly:
    1) She got the other guy whom she didn't date to confirm to the OP that she was telling the truth.
    2) She spoke directly to the other person who was lying.
    3) She spoke to the OP several times about this.

    What she didn't get, however, was feedback from the OP that yes, he was convinced that she was telling the truth and that the liar was a sleaze. What the OP actually said was "I didn't want to hear it out of respect for you and let's move on". For all she knows, the OP still believes the lies and just wants the whole incident to blow over. Getting no validation obviously leaves the entire situation open, despite both people wanting to "move on". There is a complete lack of trust with the lack of communication and the assumption on the side of the OP that she should just "get it" and "act logically because she's an NT". I'm not surprised that she cut him off, to be honest.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by nonsequitur View Post
    From her actions, it's quite obvious to me that she tried, systematically and reasonably, to address the problem directly:
    1) She got the other guy whom she didn't date to confirm to the OP that she was telling the truth.
    2) She spoke directly to the other person who was lying.
    3) She spoke to the OP several times about this.

    What she didn't get, however, was feedback from the OP that yes, he was convinced that she was telling the truth and that the liar was a sleaze. ... I'm not surprised that she cut him off, to be honest.
    I think you should read carefully

    1. True she spoke to other guy and I asked her did u intimidate him. I am a strong personality myself and I know how scred people become when I am intense as she would have been
    2. She did not and in fact that's what was irritating she was badmouthing him based on info from others. Although the facts are probably true what the hell does his personal life have to do with issue? I told her if she wanted to talk to him its OK because I would live with the consequences of deciding to tell her.
    3) She spoke twice about it and all she wanted was to badmouth him - to what purpose? I know the facts but I think for her and me to indulge in mud about him is to descent to his level, surely?

    FYI I told her that I believe her and that my opinion of her did not change. Btw She spoke to e so my perception that she brushed me off was genuinely due to being in a rush - owe her an apology .

    Where I do admit being in the wrong is that I should have told him he is an arsehole but I took a few days before telling her because he may have been trying to be a "good friend" by his definition, who knows? It takes all types and kinds? Even then I felt I betrayed him and his trust. Ah well a judgement mistake.

    PS Quote about ENTJs "A talent for factual analysis unbiased by prejudice or emotion."
    Last edited by Kambro; 12-08-2009 at 11:10 AM. Reason: Needed to add senetnce enxt to PS

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    deleted as duplicated below
    Last edited by Kambro; 12-09-2009 at 12:14 AM. Reason: Oops duplication :)

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