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  1. #1
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Default Gap between E and I for NT's

    Hi

    Been thinking about how different NT's types manifest themselves and the gap between E and I types of the same core... ie gap between the E and the I types of NTP and NTJ's

    When I look at the difference between the E and I of NTPs they appear to be quite close, many ENTPs appear to be INTPs over projecting (ie E types natrual state would be calmer than they are protraying). That the core styls are pretty similar....

    But when I look at the same gap between NTJ's they seem really poles appart between the I and the E.

    Do you see the communialities between the E and I or see the gaps? ?????

  2. #2
    Senior Member Cypocalypse's Avatar
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    The similarity between ENTP and INTP in the E/I duality seem to arise from situations where the social environment is heavily SF oriented, effectively making ENTPs shut up or whatnot creating the impression that they're borderlining INTP.

    However, in situations that are NP oriented, the E/I disparity between the ENTP and INTP becomes more apparent. Sometimes, an INTP can get socially inept even in his own preferred N environment.

    I'm an ENTP with a weak E. I don't know if this put that much bearing in your observation, but compared to an INTJ that I know, My E is so strong by comparison.

  3. #3
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypocalypse View Post
    The similarity between ENTP and INTP in the E/I duality seem to arise from situations where the social environment is heavily SF oriented, effectively making ENTPs shut up or whatnot creating the impression that they're borderlining INTP.

    However, in situations that are NP oriented, the E/I disparity between the ENTP and INTP becomes more apparent. Sometimes, an INTP can get socially inept even in his own preferred N environment.

    I'm an ENTP with a weak E. I don't know if this put that much bearing in your observation, but compared to an INTJ that I know, My E is so strong by comparison.

    I don't know many INTP socally I ought to point out, so it may be different as you say when in calmer company.

    I really do think ENTPs are really socailly uncomfortable... the E expression is when expressing ideas/building them rather than in social situations in new company or quieter company.

    I totally agree that an ENTP in comparision to an INTJ is massive, INTP would be in the middle between those two.

    It just seems to work differently.

    L

  4. #4
    Senior Member Cypocalypse's Avatar
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    I do consider myself social. Primarily because I decided to be. 3 years ago, I was more like INTP/INFP. Currently, I place myself at eNtP.

    I know two INTPs. Very weak socially. AN INTJ can pass as a stereotypical boring ISTJ, but these two INTPs I know come off as weird and obnoxious.

    Not that ENTPs don't get that weird accusation, but they seem to manage the weirdness better.

    The two INTPs I know probably know little about MBTI, with not so much realization on how eccentric they are. Kinda like being lost.

    A good sign that there's a good transition from INTP to an ENTP:

    1. Better self management. Not necessarily hiding off the weirdness factor but making it more appealing to others.

    2. Less Ti assertion. For example, compare how Dr. Phil (possibly an INTP) assert things, to Steven Colbert's (possibly an ENTP) playfulness.

  5. #5
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypocalypse View Post
    I do consider myself social. Primarily because I decided to be. 3 years ago, I was more like INTP/INFP. Currently, I place myself at eNtP.

    I know two INTPs. Very weak socially. AN INTJ can pass as a stereotypical boring ISTJ, but these two INTPs I know come off as weird and obnoxious.

    Not that ENTPs don't get that weird accusation, but they seem to manage the weirdness better.

    The two INTPs I know probably know little about MBTI, with not so much realization on how eccentric they are. Kinda like being lost.

    A good sign that there's a good transition from INTP to an ENTP:

    1. Better self management. Not necessarily hiding off the weirdness factor but making it more appealing to others.

    2. Less Ti assertion. For example, compare how Dr. Phil (possibly an INTP) assert things, to Steven Colbert's (possibly an ENTP) playfulness.

    Your not the first ENTP I've heard own that they made an active choice not to be an I.... wonder if that is why I see the E and the I of this type being so similar. I'd say I made the chocie in highschool

    INTPs can be very in their head, when I was chatting with an OR's recently (operational researcher = does mathematical modeling), is an INTP who admitted he was into Scifi - which gave me a laugh at the time because he is so straight at work. But they have a degree of weirdness as you say. I'm weird but I'm realtively comfortable with it.

    I do think that ENTPs have massive self managment issues at the best of times, actually ENFPs also suffer from this.

    Your point 2 bullet above makes no sense as they are local references and I'm not in the US so haven't a clue who they are

  6. #6
    Senior Member Kenneth Almighty's Avatar
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    I'm great with new, fresh crowds (acting, debates, classroom discussions and so forth), but it's almost as if my more immediate (and SF dominated tbh) company won't let me grow out of the conceptions of me when I arrived in this neighbourhood as a kid (ie an eccentric, intense ITP).

    I can't develop me Ne without some damn E-ing, damnit!

    Actually, I relate to you quite well Cycoclapse, right down to the pair of INTP friends.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Cypocalypse's Avatar
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    Ok.

    Errrr...compare Rowan Atkinson (Mr. Bean. Possibly an ENTP) to any of those intellectual forum shows in BBC (soooooooo INTP. LOL!)

    I decided to make a shift to E because when I was in my I mode back then, I don't feel that there are a lot of things going for me (academic life, etc).

    I'm not necessarily implying that E would make things better, but it made me happier knowing that I can generate pun in whatever disposition I'm in. Basically Ne optimization, which, at the same time, conditions me psychologically to me more optimistic on things, unlike INTP/INFP mode, which can sometimes lead me into being sucked by my occasional loneliness.

    My relationship with people thus improved. I could say that there's also an improvement in that other definition of extroversion.

    A lot of NPs can have this feeling of being lost, wandering around or what, but at least they can CONDITION themselves to be happy at it.

  8. #8
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Mr Bean is interesting, of course he is just a character, but on his own he has the flakeness fo an ENTP with the lack of communication of an INTJ/P... v strange... Id' say he was neither but has qualities of both.


    If you follow British humour I'd say Black Adder was more ENTP - although this is not a considered oppinion.

    I can totally relate to the shift between I to E, but it still fundementally an uncofortable possition to be in if there is genuinely not a E within.... In MBTI def I'm very much an E so long as the people I am chewing the fat with can help thinking rather than close it down or peak it to death... HATE that.

    I think Being E can help, I type living can be quite isolating, but not nessisarily because they want to be, just seems to happen. E type have the benefit of networking, but specific ENTPs can use those networks innapropraitely - trying to get things from people, not nessesarily consiously, but they don't nessesarily see they are taking the piss.

    Wider NPs can lack focus and tend to whirl around in conceptual space, but they almost always have an eye for the donut and not on the hole... so know exactly which way is up.. but can float around.

    I hae a mate who is an ENFP and she and I use very similar think processes, except she communicated intermediary steps and I go straight to a very well thoughtout solution/conclusion. Her thinking is like a cartoon character falling out a tree... she bounces down the branches that she if falling into and communicates each of these branches of her thought... so when she hits the ground people have followed her train. Me, I just fall from the top and the tree and hit the ground, and people don't follow how I got there... not always easy to accept that I've gone through the exact same thinking process.

    Kenneth - I know the feeling about people only seeing part of you all to well, keep up challegning them. But also be kind, because it is difficult for anyone seeing changes in people, I still have to stop myself form overly looking after babies I knew when I was little, who are now adults...

  9. #9
    Senior Member SerengetiBetty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypocalypse View Post
    The similarity between ENTP and INTP in the E/I duality seem to arise from situations where the social environment is heavily SF oriented, effectively making ENTPs shut up or whatnot creating the impression that they're borderlining INTP.

    However, in situations that are NP oriented, the E/I disparity between the ENTP and INTP becomes more apparent. Sometimes, an INTP can get socially inept even in his own preferred N environment.

    I'm an ENTP with a weak E. I don't know if this put that much bearing in your observation, but compared to an INTJ that I know, My E is so strong by comparison.
    i can agree with this. i'm very high on the E scale and even i have trouble extroverting around some SFs because it's like we're speaking completely different languages in different dimensions. Either I'm finding their conversation boring or they're finding my conversation weird. there's only so long I can hear about all the things you get done at a spa, the annoyances of your work day before i want to rip your arm off and beat you with it and there's only so long until they start taking my off-color jokes seriously and will want to cal the police or the ASPCA.

    I don't consider myself introverted in this situation because I'm still actively engaging in my surroundings be paying attention to what 's going on around me and eavesdropping in on other conversations in order to find something more interesting. If I hear bits of a conversation that interest me more than the SF conversation I've been known to just wander away and join the new conversation

    i also agree that in NP and ST situations, the differences between E/I will be noticeable.

  10. #10
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SerengetiBetty View Post
    i can agree with this. i'm very high on the E scale and even i have trouble extroverting around some SFs because it's like we're speaking completely different languages in different dimensions. Either I'm finding their conversation boring or they're finding my conversation weird. there's only so long I can hear about all the things you get done at a spa, the annoyances of your work day before i want to rip your arm off and beat you with it and there's only so long until they start taking my off-color jokes seriously and will want to cal the police or the ASPCA.

    I don't consider myself introverted in this situation because I'm still actively engaging in my surroundings be paying attention to what 's going on around me and eavesdropping in on other conversations in order to find something more interesting. If I hear bits of a conversation that interest me more than the SF conversation I've been known to just wander away and join the new conversation

    i also agree that in NP and ST situations, the differences between E/I will be noticeable.
    Hi, me, how are you doing?

    I'm beginning to think the main difference between INTPs and ENTPs is that the former are content to have things theoretically worked out, while the latter wants to see it happen. The whole professor/inventor dichotomy. Other than that, the two can be fairly similar.

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