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Thread: Ask an ENTP!

  1. #1471
    ✿ڿڰۣஇღ♥ wut ♥ღஇڿڰۣ✿ digesthisickness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Youd think Id be able to tell after having spent over 20 years with two of your kind, but nope..
    Well, text makes it harder to pick up on. And, also, we can be terribly dry in our humor. Which, ironically, text helps with.
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    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by digesthisickness View Post
    Well, text makes it harder to pick up on. And, also, we can be terribly dry in our humor. Which, ironically, text helps with.
    See, but INTJs are worse on that. And yet it is easier to pick up on
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  3. #1473
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    See, but INTJs are worse on that. And yet it is easier to pick up on
    Their's is more predictable. Not in a bad way; I love their's. Just that their humor doesn't come in as many 'flavors' for lack of a better term.
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    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    You haven't bought one yet? Shame on you!
    A grater increases the surface area of the cheese, so you get more cheesy deliciousness!
    I DID! But someone trashed it cuz it got a little rusty [prolly iron heavy water].
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  5. #1475
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by digesthisickness View Post
    Well, text makes it harder to pick up on. And, also, we can be terribly dry in our humor. Which, ironically, text helps with.
    Ya, it can be liek gin.
    To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
    ~ Elbert Hubbard

    Music provides one of the clearest examples of a much deeper relation between mathematics and human experience.

  6. #1476
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    Quote Originally Posted by phobik View Post
    Ya, it can be liek gin.
    Exactly. A little is fun; too much is a depressant.
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  7. #1477
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Thanks so much for this. Im still mulling it over as it is a goldmine
    Glad to be of service.

    So its a type of armour, while getting to know the person.
    Getting to know the person might not even be the intention. It might be something as simple as keeping a straight face and maintaining the facade of engagement and sufficient interest to get through the uncomfortable period and return to wherever is safe. In my experience, feeling disconnected from a conversation can feel very unsafe, because speaking might be demanded of me at some point, and I might say the wrong thing (never a case of not knowing what to say in the first place; instead, that's a mental block placed by the anxiety). It creates this incredible internal tension: the extroverted part of you wants to interact with people and learn things about them, but there's also the part that maintains anxiety because the world, and people, seem dangerous in that I never knew when they were going to flip on me, or when something I did unknowingly and without intent would set other people off, and potentially make them not like me.

    And the jabbing is a form of fencing powerplay game, it would appear.
    Yes. It is a way of reassuring myself that I am still in control, that I am still smarter than the other person, and that they know not to mess around with me.

    How does one go from opponent to partner in crime? After a couple of fencing matches?
    It's when the person starts fooling around in the banter just as much as I do, and starts to get all silly with it. For example, one of my friends and I might latch onto a random subject, and sort of have a "contest" to see who can go "too far" with it, or who can make the other person more uncomfortable. It's fun because you get to push each other's boundaries, and learn about them that way. In Enneagram terms, it is a manifestation of the sexual instinct, as the other partner shapes your response as you shape his or hers.

    That must be an exhausting mode to live in.
    It is. I went years where I did not stop thinking unless I was drunk or passed out from exhaustion.

    Sounds very..survival-oriented. Struggle for power. And cold. I can see why you would need to protect your identity in that situation that way.

    Is there a way to get an ENTP to understand that he isnt helping but in fact being..cruel and making him stop? Or is it better to just weather the storm and talk to them later?
    It was. Imagine living in what appears from the outside as a quiet, nice neighborhood, but never feeling psychologically safe at home (we've discussed this before). There is no one you can talk to about this, nor would you ever bring it up to someone outside, because look around at how comfortable an upbringing you have, and there are billions who would be overjoyed to live as you do, in middle class America. You can't trust your feelings, because they are telling you that there's something terribly wrong, but you've got no way to calm yourself or escape. Safer to just suppress them. You haven't lived in a particularly physically violent house, but you've seen the rage in their eyes. There's no telling when the next shoe might drop. The cultural messages (it was the '90s) were mindless consumerism, paranoia and sarcastic disaffection, and these often seem like the only escape. You want to rebel, but are afraid of the consequences, so you settle for passive aggression. You want to escape, but are afraid you can't hack it in a dangerous and scary world. No matter what you do, deep down inside, you never feel safe, and it doesn't seem like there is anyone who could possibly understand. Life is a Hobbesian war of all against all.

    In response to your question...

    Quote Originally Posted by phobik View Post
    Just being as forthcoming and clear as you just did should suffice to alert Fe. Younger/immature ppl might be more reluctant to cave in due to pride. If it proves to be the case, just cut your losses and look after yourself, eventually they may come around, or learn from it.
    Clarity and honesty do help. What Orobas said in the other thread about pointing out that there are other people being hurt by your actions also tends to work well. When I'm in a grumpy mood, I might not care that the target is being hurt by what I have to say, but if there's collateral damage, that can break the cycle of anger. At the same time, this is also a case where others are not responsible for my emotions. If I am that upset it is in a way because I want to be that upset, and I don't want to relax at that moment. This suggests the final tactic before disengaging: point out that the person's acting like a child, and specifically illustrate how so. The evidence makes it difficult to argue, and can redirect the attacking energy within.

  8. #1478
    Senior Member Phoenix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    You guys actually like it when someone keeps you at a distance? Watches you with hawk eyes (but still engages you, though with a ten foot pole at the very least)
    I personally enjoy it. Dunno about other ENTP's ... but I love it when someone acts a little "aloof" to my existence ... especially if they've engaged me at least once or twice - but drops hints that they're watching or something.

    I kinda do the same as well actually.

    I get really close, and pull back just as quickly. It's my way of letting the other person know .. "Hey .. you're cool and interesting. Now I wonder if you feel the same way about me. Let's play."

    ..and is this preferable at first, before you get to know the person?
    Preferable ... I dunno .. I think it's actually one of the ways to get to know a person --- if that's what it takes to know someone I like.

    Overall though, I'm the sort of person who likes consistent inconsistency. Too much of the same thing and I get bored. Too sporadic and I bolt.

    And for that matter, do you even enjoy that someone looks at you with a certain amount of...distrust at first?
    This is something I don't really care for. When I engage someone, I always know that I have to earn their trust --- just as they have to earn mine. I do like being trusting right from the start ---- but I don't mind if I'm not trusted - because i know how to get there eventually. [Over-confident much ... yeah .. maybe .. i wouldn't be me if I wasn't .. soo .. ]

    Lastly, is this how you yourself deal with new people you meet?
    If they have this energy about them that I like --- that pulls me to them, I try to get close to them and slowly figure out what makes them tick. I wanna know their likes, dislikes. What they like to talk about. What are their favourite topics of conversation and try to see if we have one that we both like so we can meld our minds together --- which eventually leads to deeper sharing and merging.

    That said, I have also gotten false energy readings. Initial attraction --- but then boredom sets in and I find out a way to get out of whatever obligation has developed.

    What is with enjoying the animosity that goes on and is that what your bantering is based on and what you relish?
    Personally .. I relish everything that's spicy.

  9. #1479
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Getting to know the person might not even be the intention. It might be something as simple as keeping a straight face and maintaining the facade of engagement and sufficient interest to get through the uncomfortable period and return to wherever is safe. In my experience, feeling disconnected from a conversation can feel very unsafe, because speaking might be demanded of me at some point, and I might say the wrong thing (never a case of not knowing what to say in the first place; instead, that's a mental block placed by the anxiety). It creates this incredible internal tension: the extroverted part of you wants to interact with people and learn things about them, but there's also the part that maintains anxiety because the world, and people, seem dangerous in that I never knew when they were going to flip on me, or when something I did unknowingly and without intent would set other people off, and potentially make them not like me.
    Wait, this looks familiar...thats the NeSi relationship that we have as well. That typical fear and the thousands of what ifs that go through your head as you try and make sense of a group of people and the way you are 'supposed' to act, without getting torn to shreds. And the pull and push you feel to connect with others, yet not get slammed. (though that connecting is perhaps more Fi)
    Yes. It is a way of reassuring myself that I am still in control, that I am still smarter than the other person, and that they know not to mess around with me.
    I never knew that ENTPs were so powerdriven. I mean...the Ne sort of..hides that fact coz it makes them look playful. But from this Id say you are almost more driven than NTJs
    It's when the person starts fooling around in the banter just as much as I do, and starts to get all silly with it. For example, one of my friends and I might latch onto a random subject, and sort of have a "contest" to see who can go "too far" with it, or who can make the other person more uncomfortable. It's fun because you get to push each other's boundaries, and learn about them that way. In Enneagram terms, it is a manifestation of the sexual instinct, as the other partner shapes your response as you shape his or hers.
    Yess, this I also recognise. I play by the same rules, but a different game! You push it too far to make the other uncomfortable. So..you aim to straddle the perfect line between one upping them, and calling their bluff and hurting their feelings? To show how not vulnerable you are? And for that matter, reinforce the walls afterwards? Kind of like physical sparring...

    I play that same game with Fi. I get too close too intimately on purpose, and see if the other will accept my dare to do the same. The first one to blush or flush and withdraw loses. Emotional boundaries and how much emotional intensity you can handle basically, mixed with a game of 'chicken'. It can be incredibly fun when you trigger blissful emotions in each other. I guess with you, the pay off is feeling intelligent and powerful? Outsmarting as such? Isnt that a win-lose situation though? Someone always has got to lose? Or is it possible to reach that perfect balance of status quo and feel powerful still?

    Im not quite sure as to how you cause the other, in your game, to feel uncomfortable. Id be interested to see the mechanics

    It is. I went years where I did not stop thinking unless I was drunk or passed out from exhaustion.


    It was. Imagine living in what appears from the outside as a quiet, nice neighborhood, but never feeling psychologically safe at home (we've discussed this before). There is no one you can talk to about this, nor would you ever bring it up to someone outside, because look around at how comfortable an upbringing you have, and there are billions who would be overjoyed to live as you do, in middle class America. You can't trust your feelings, because they are telling you that there's something terribly wrong, but you've got no way to calm yourself or escape. Safer to just suppress them. You haven't lived in a particularly physically violent house, but you've seen the rage in their eyes. There's no telling when the next shoe might drop. The cultural messages (it was the '90s) were mindless consumerism, paranoia and sarcastic disaffection, and these often seem like the only escape. You want to rebel, but are afraid of the consequences, so you settle for passive aggression. You want to escape, but are afraid you can't hack it in a dangerous and scary world. No matter what you do, deep down inside, you never feel safe, and it doesn't seem like there is anyone who could possibly understand. Life is a Hobbesian war of all against all.
    Oh hon..yeah, that sounds terribly lonely, almost like growing up in a war-zone. And actually somewhat familiar as well. I just escaped into fantasy worlds though, daydreams, fiction, tv...anything to get me to experience intense blissfull emotions and get me out of reality



    Clarity and honesty do help. What Orobas said in the other thread about pointing out that there are other people being hurt by your actions also tends to work well. When I'm in a grumpy mood, I might not care that the target is being hurt by what I have to say, but if there's collateral damage, that can break the cycle of anger. At the same time, this is also a case where others are not responsible for my emotions. If I am that upset it is in a way because I want to be that upset, and I don't want to relax at that moment. This suggests the final tactic before disengaging: point out that the person's acting like a child, and specifically illustrate how so. The evidence makes it difficult to argue, and can redirect the attacking energy within.
    Well..my experience teaches me actually that showing that you are hurting me, and being clear about that, as well as asking them to stop seems to work like blood on a shark. They perceive it as weakness and push even harder to make the kill. This is irl experience, mind you. One of the entps I know has matured a bit, but I can tell that when I do plead with him to stop, he gets aggrevated, and it costs him an incredible amount of energy to transform that energy into detachment and the ability to 'laugh it away' as to respect my request. The other...well..from what I can pick up, I think it is the mere sight of 'vulnerability' that seems to piss him off and make him incredibly scared. Like seeing my vulnerability makes his suddenly clear for the entire world to see as well, and he cant help but try and destroy that, to hide it from the world.

    The only way Ive found to stop the latter was to overload his system emotionally by putting a mirror in front of him and his vulnerabilities and basically...shred him to pieces before he shreds me to pieces. Not one of my finer moments and not something I wanna do ever again.

    Ive seen this on forums as well, where entps, especially when there is a crowd watching, will go in for the kill, ignoring pleas to stop, almost encouraged by them in fact, perhaps due to fear of being perceived as weak? I dunno..Ive also seen where the crowd cheers them on and they go for the kill to entertain the crowd and feed their own ego.

    in private, and once you get some rapport going with them, I find that your suggestion is very much valid, though it will cause them frustration and awkwardness to witness my vulnerability and having to stop at all, when they were just getting started, I find. And it always somewhat makes them retreat behind their walls again..presumably for my own protection?

    Mmm..or do you mean collateral damage as in...bigger picture damage? Group damage as such? Calling you on the fact that you are breaching Fe-protocol?

    Aka 'you are making a scene', 'You are better than this'?
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    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    I personally enjoy it. Dunno about other ENTP's ... but I love it when someone acts a little "aloof" to my existence ... especially if they've engaged me at least once or twice - but drops hints that they're watching or something.

    I kinda do the same as well actually.

    I get really close, and pull back just as quickly. It's my way of letting the other person know .. "Hey .. you're cool and interesting. Now I wonder if you feel the same way about me. Let's play."



    Preferable ... I dunno .. I think it's actually one of the ways to get to know a person --- if that's what it takes to know someone I like.

    Overall though, I'm the sort of person who likes consistent inconsistency. Too much of the same thing and I get bored. Too sporadic and I bolt.



    This is something I don't really care for. When I engage someone, I always know that I have to earn their trust --- just as they have to earn mine. I do like being trusting right from the start ---- but I don't mind if I'm not trusted - because i know how to get there eventually. [Over-confident much ... yeah .. maybe .. i wouldn't be me if I wasn't .. soo .. ]



    If they have this energy about them that I like --- that pulls me to them, I try to get close to them and slowly figure out what makes them tick. I wanna know their likes, dislikes. What they like to talk about. What are their favourite topics of conversation and try to see if we have one that we both like so we can meld our minds together --- which eventually leads to deeper sharing and merging.

    That said, I have also gotten false energy readings. Initial attraction --- but then boredom sets in and I find out a way to get out of whatever obligation has developed.



    Personally .. I relish everything that's spicy.

    This post sounds like something I couldve written...I blame the shared sx, but you also..you show a need to get to know people without a need to maintain control. At least here. Which is a sharp contrast to OMTs post. Do you relate to the stuff he has written?
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