[ENTP] Ask an ENTP!

[Fluffywolf]

As for you INPs, nobody even knows wtf you guys think about anything because you won't pipe up often enough to make it known. If people heard all your inner thoughts they probably wouldn't think you make a lot of sense either

The thing is, we don't care much about other peoples opinions about ourselves, even though when we are understood it's nice, we don't require anyone to be understanding. Which is why I kinda find Nancy's question intruiging.

I mean, your thought processes, ideas and such. Are quite like INTP's. And we know, just like you, that we're misunderstood most of the time. Yet ENTP's seem to make a huge effort in trying to make yourself understood.

So is that because you wish to teach others? Or is there an underlying need to be understood due to personal insecurities?

Thing is, to us INTP's, who don't care as much to get our thoughts externally all the time, only when it's somehow important to us in one way or another, it sometimes appears as though you don't have as much faith in your own thoughts the way we do, by always projecting outwards, even when there's no apparant reason to do so. Or there seems nothing to gain from it.


Yet on the other side, it might just be because you're all just that much nicer than us in trying to get the world to understand. In which case, keep going and prepare the world for ntp'ness. Since we, intp's, benefit from it.

 

[Kasper]

I mean, you're thought processes, ideas and such. Are quite like INTP's. And we know, just like you, that we're misunderstood most of the time. Yet ENTP's seem to make a huge effort in trying to make yourself understood.

So is that because you wish to teach others? Or is there an underlying need to be understood due to personal insecurities?

Being understood can be a surprisingly important thing at times, I don't care what people think of me but I do care that they understand my ideas

1. I don't want to be misunderstood and thought stupid, inept or uncaring etc so will often take extra steps to make sure we're clear, by doing time consuming things such as asking "are we clear". It's not insecurity though.

2. I often talk and think at the same time so what I'm saying may not make sense to me until I go over it again.

3. I don't assume I make sense to others cause I don't always get me myself. Kay, it's not so much that I don't get what I'm saying, I just haven't always seen all the steps so can skip things in explanation, that and I'm not the most articulate cat out there.

4. Making sure someone else understands can help me deepen my understanding, I'm always seeking further input to expand my view and change the goal posts. Ne is tasty like that. If you understand you can give me something back.

I do also enjoy seeing people think about something they haven't thought of before although I don't consider teaching my main reason for wanting understanding at times, it's more self rewarding than that.

 

[Nyx]

CAUTION: INFJish WORD VOMIT AHEAD!
(I hate myself)

NOTE: No human should ever cause another human THIS much confusion. ENTPs, why do you continue to confuse/enthrall me?

Sigh.
I want to ask how you know for sure an ENTP loves you... (I'm talkin' romantic love) ...

IF the ENTP has been horribly hurt in the realm of love
AND
is a young ENTP (20, aka immature!) trying to establish his sense of identity if the world (in college, not near me at the moment) ...

my gut feeling in general has been: He loves me. Our relationship is near epic proportions. I cannot deny it anymore, I cannot say less than I am in love with this person. It is that mythical rare transcendent/transcendental/cosmic/relationship that you doubt will ever happen to you again.

The first time we hung out, we spent 12 hours talking (dusk to dawn... this subsequently happened many more times!)... we barely knew each other previous to this. My intuition was FORCING me to meet this person who was actually interested in my friend at the time I forced myself to meet him.

When I talk to him/am with him, my gut says: He loves me! It is established I am his best friend, even though he has an absurd amount of "friends". He only goes to school about 30 minutes away and sees his other friends (almost always guys, and no close girl friends) from back home, but I have not seen him in six months.

My INFJ sensibility tells me he is purposefully keeping a distance so as to preserve what we have... Preserving in a vaccuum sealed glass jar and putting it on a self... only opening it in case of dire need (aka those times when the ENTP is alone, those rare occasions, and his deepest thoughts surface... those are the times we come in contact) School is keeping him super stimulated and active, and in typical ENTP fashion he is great at compartmentalizing his life. It should be noted he told me that while this has been the best year of his life, and school is fantastic, he feels like there is something missing, and that something is me! (Which apparently is a big deal to say...)

Essentially, the intimacy of our "relationship" and the amount we are in contact (in any form) has an indirect relationship. This leads us to INTENSE catching up when we do talk, and little time for normal, day to day activities. Instead, it feels like the fabric of space-time is reordering itself.

To me this makes NO sense, but the words from the horses mouth have been "I'm going to let you down (whatever that means)" "I fear attachment/dependency on someone" . This horse does not lose his cool. ever. Nor does he shower me with platitudes (thank goodness!). He monitors every word so as not to slip up and show vulnerability (only in regard to being open emotionally).

My theory is that I could hurt him the most, so what he does is keep me as far away as possible, though of course, I do know he thinks about me often. Those who he is with the most are those with whom his attachments are either not romantic or not "soul shaking-ly" deep, but fun and easy to manage. I recently spoke to him on the phone and he off handed-ly let me know he hasn't done anything physically with anyone in college yet (not even a kiss!) which i find strange because traditionally girls fawn over him, because he's that guy who is unconditionally nice to everyone and Mr. Amiable and Hilarious.

I have noticed this with other ENTPs as well actually. They tend to "save" their best friends... if that makes sense. My best friend (girl) is also an ENTP, and she said (referring to my "role" in the ENTP life) "when an ENTP wants to hang out with you, they REALLY want to hang out with you... they are saving you for a time when they know they can be wholly devoted to being with you." I'm being USED for my spiritual/emotional support which actually helps shape the framework of their lives...

WHAT IS THIS SHIT!? and why do I care?

p.s. should i just try to exorcise this person from my thoughts?

 

[Shimmy]

Wow nyx, he sounds like the typical ENTP.

To answer your original question.

I want to ask how you know for sure an ENTP loves you

ENTP loves you!

I can't speak for all ENTP's obviously but here's what I know.

Your theory is valid. I could see myself behave in the way you described. And yes, you are being used to help shape the frameworks of their lives.

But is that such a bad thing? You are actually improving the life of someone you love, and better yet, you make him happy. And he makes you happy. As for the intense catching up and not seeing each other often. If the guy is as self-conscious as me he realizes that the two of you should catch up more often, but he may be afraid that it will become something casual. Passionate experiences are addictive to all ENTPs.
It could also be that he is afraid of emotional dependency, like you said. It can be hard for anybody to open up. But then again, if he feels safe with you then someday he will open up anyway. Best take it slow.

As for your final two questions.

WHAT IS THIS SHIT!? and why do I care?

It's love and you care because oxytocin is rushing through your brain every time you think of this guy. It's a powerful reaction, isn't it?

p.s. should i just try to exorcise this person from my thoughts?

Yes and no, at the moment you're over-analysing, I think you're getting your emotional validation from this guy and it isn't working for you. You can think of the guy, but focus on the more practical side.

A good advice for feelers communicating with thinkers is to learn about S.M.A.R.T. goal setting. ENTPs are people pleasers and will want to know how to make you feel good. But don't throw too much emotions in the mix, because in the end only YOU are responsible for them and you can't rely on an ENTP to understand them all of the time.

Ooh, I just thought of something. For added effect, if you feel you have good enough rapport with him, give him the list on the back of a letter that graphically describes what you're going to do to him if he's a good boy. Sprinkle it in your perfume. Draw something on it. If the guy is anything like me, this would make it a game and a challenge, and drive him wild. Don't make it too personal, he will want to show this to all his friends.

Oh, and Please Do Me A Favor.

 

[Tamske]

CAUTION: INFJish WORD VOMIT AHEAD!
(I hate myself)

Don' do that

NOTE: No human should ever cause another human THIS much confusion. ENTPs, why do you continue to confuse/enthrall me?

Probably because we're confused about ourselves. We're not causing confusion on purpose. We just try and try and try things out until something sticks.

Sigh.
I want to ask how you know for sure an ENTP loves you... (I'm talkin' romantic love) ...

IF the ENTP has been horribly hurt in the realm of love
AND
is a young ENTP (20, aka immature!) trying to establish his sense of identity if the world (in college, not near me at the moment) ...

my gut feeling in general has been: He loves me. Our relationship is near epic proportions. I cannot deny it anymore, I cannot say less than I am in love with this person. It is that mythical rare transcendent/transcendental/cosmic/relationship that you doubt will ever happen to you again.

The first time we hung out, we spent 12 hours talking (dusk to dawn... this subsequently happened many more times!)... we barely knew each other previous to this. My intuition was FORCING me to meet this person who was actually interested in my friend at the time I forced myself to meet him.

When I talk to him/am with him, my gut says: He loves me! It is established I am his best friend, even though he has an absurd amount of "friends". He only goes to school about 30 minutes away and sees his other friends (almost always guys, and no close girl friends) from back home, but I have not seen him in six months.

My INFJ sensibility tells me he is purposefully keeping a distance so as to preserve what we have... Preserving in a vaccuum sealed glass jar and putting it on a self... only opening it in case of dire need (aka those times when the ENTP is alone, those rare occasions, and his deepest thoughts surface... those are the times we come in contact) School is keeping him super stimulated and active, and in typical ENTP fashion he is great at compartmentalizing his life. It should be noted he told me that while this has been the best year of his life, and school is fantastic, he feels like there is something missing, and that something is me! (Which apparently is a big deal to say...)

What? He SAYS he's missing you? I mean, litterally? How more clear can you be?
Now I'm confused... I'm thinking you're reading too much in this. He probably doesn't realise he's sending out hints and conflicting messages. ENTPs are not subtle.

Essentially, the intimacy of our "relationship" and the amount we are in contact (in any form) has an indirect relationship. This leads us to INTENSE catching up when we do talk, and little time for normal, day to day activities. Instead, it feels like the fabric of space-time is reordering itself.

That's probably because space-time is reordering itself all the time.

To me this makes NO sense, but the words from the horses mouth have been "I'm going to let you down (whatever that means)" "I fear attachment/dependency on someone" . This horse does not lose his cool. ever. Nor does he shower me with platitudes (thank goodness!). He monitors every word so as not to slip up and show vulnerability (only in regard to being open emotionally).

My theory is that I could hurt him the most, so what he does is keep me as far away as possible, though of course, I do know he thinks about me often. Those who he is with the most are those with whom his attachments are either not romantic or not "soul shaking-ly" deep, but fun and easy to manage. I recently spoke to him on the phone and he off handed-ly let me know he hasn't done anything physically with anyone in college yet (not even a kiss!) which i find strange because traditionally girls fawn over him, because he's that guy who is unconditionally nice to everyone and Mr. Amiable and Hilarious.

I have noticed this with other ENTPs as well actually. They tend to "save" their best friends... if that makes sense. My best friend (girl) is also an ENTP, and she said (referring to my "role" in the ENTP life) "when an ENTP wants to hang out with you, they REALLY want to hang out with you... they are saving you for a time when they know they can be wholly devoted to being with you." I'm being USED for my spiritual/emotional support which actually helps shape the framework of their lives...

In this last paragraph I recognize myself again. I'm busy with everything at once. When I'm in company, I always feel like I'm failing them, like I should devote ALL my attention to them. I never can be as good a friend to others as others are to me. Then I think my friends deserve better friends than I can be to them.
Complicated isn't it?

Luckily, some people have taught me that I fulfill my friend's role in the best possible way, not by staying away, not by playing an act and be the loyal follower, but just by being myself. But that's hard.

WHAT IS THIS SHIT!?

ENTP?

and why do I care?

Because you love him?

p.s. should i just try to exorcise this person from my thoughts?

[/quote]

I'm going to give you a quite rash advice.
Say these things to him. Literally. Like:
"I love you. I want to know if you really love me?"
"Staying away because you love me doesn't make sense." (call on his Ti!)
"Do you really think you're doing me a favor by staying away? I would prefer that you keep on having contact, even if your attention goes half to other things."
"I'd prefer you next to me working on a crazy project all the time, than you keeping away except for these short and intense contacts."
"Not all our contacts have to be this intense, you know. I think you're afraid that, when you stay, that you'll have to keep your attention on me all the time. That's simply not true."

Well I'm just repeating some things I learnt along the way to love... They helped me, at least. I really hope you'll be able to help him.

 

[Shimmy]

I'm going to give you a quite rash advice.
Say these things to him. Literally. Like:
"I love you. I want to know if you really love me?"
"Staying away because you love me doesn't make sense." (call on his Ti!)
"Do you really think you're doing me a favor by staying away? I would prefer that you keep on having contact, even if your attention goes half to other things."
"I'd prefer you next to me working on a crazy project all the time, than you keeping away except for these short and intense contacts."
"Not all our contacts have to be this intense, you know. I think you're afraid that, when you stay, that you'll have to keep your attention on me all the time. That's simply not true."

Well I'm just repeating some things I learnt along the way to love... They helped me, at least. I really hope you'll be able to help him.

Ow, that sounds perfect!

 

[Tamske]

I've just thought another one. For the love of anything Thinker-related, DON'T start your conversation with "We need to have a chat about our relationship". When I hear these words, I'd run away, either physically or mentally.

Time is VERY precious and should not be wasted on talking about something that *already exists*. We're experts at doing the stupid needed things while thinking about non-existing things. If you can do a reasonable job while NOT keeping attention, why would you keep attention? Why wouldn't you use your attention instead on worthwhile things(*)? That's why multitasking was invented - at least according to the ENTPs

So start with: "You're not making sense." Or: "You tend to act like this, do you know that?" Chance is he'll start a "dig the whole thing out until I understand this" trip - and that's precisely what you want.

ENTPs will do unlogical things until they realize those things are unlogical. This realizing is not easy and often needs someone else calling them out on it. I'm speaking from experience here.

(*) Like building marble labyrinths and dreaming up alternate laws of physics...

 

[Shimmy]

Nah, I have to disagree with you there a bit. Telling me 'I do not make sense' is an invitation to a discussion and I will likely tear you apart metaphorically.

 

[Salt n' pepper]

Nah, I have to disagree with you there a bit. Telling me 'I do not make sense' is an invitation to a discussion and I will likely tear you apart metaphorically.

That's because you're really Intp...

 

[Shimmy]

That's because you're really Intp...

Nah, I'm really an ISTJ in disguise. That's what ISTJ's do right? Disguise themselves as NTP's?

 

[Tamske]

With the risk of repeating myself... not all ENTPs are the same. I've given that advice because it did work on me. Just try picture an ES-95%T-J trying to teach how to love to an ENTP
It might help Nyx's friend. That's why I posted it. Maybe other people have other ideas about it. That's why they are very welcome to post theirs.

 

[Tamske]

Trying to revive my thread...

I recently read a column about "multitasking" and "boredness". It made me think about the old "bored ENTP" discussion. I'll quote:
"Boredness is caused by the inability to concentrate on one thing at a time." If that's true, there is no wonder why the ENTPs are bored!
I can see the reasoning behind it. You're bored by one thing, because you're already longing for the next one, and by the time the next activity comes along you've already thought it through and it isn't new and interesting any more, making you bored with second activity and longing towards a third...

But to me, being bored is also not enjoying yourself. I can very well concentrate on one thing (if it's complex enough, like teaching) and be not bored at all. There are also times when I'm bored out of my skull.
But. There are times I'm not concentrating on one thing and I'm not bored either. Eg. I'm grocery shopping and my mind wanders about, inventing snippets of lessons and stories and I know, even if I forget them, they will come back when I need them. When I don't have to concentrate on the task I'm doing, I usually enjoy myself and don't long for tomorrow.

I'm only bored when the task is not challenging enough to be able to concentrate on it, and yet I can't let my mind wander around either. Eg. composing exams (I have to concentrate and it isn't complex), attending a boring lecture...

To me, the quote is false... there is always something new to learn. Right now, I'm trying to understand constructive 3D geometry.

 

[nucleaReligion]

But to me, being bored is also not enjoying yourself. I can very well concentrate on one thing (if it's complex enough, like teaching) and be not bored at all. There are also times when I'm bored out of my skull.

Yup, I feel you there. I took my LAST history course of my college career, should have received a B+ in the course, but didn't do the reading responses. Why? They are a waste of time in my mind. i did the reading, I participated in class, hell I answered most of the questions the professor wasn't looking for. But instead I will end up with a C- because I hardly did any. High school was much worse, I already knew most of the subjects taught so I would zone out or read all day long. It was not unheard of for my teachers to catch me reading a novel during the course of a school day.

Video games do the same. The only constant game I can play and not get bored are RTS or RTT games. I hate hate hate FPS. They are carbon copies of each other, to me there is no difference between left 4 dead and modern warfare 2, so why waste money on it? I designed a few of my own games via C++ that are very chaotic and ridiculously fun (also simple designs).

But interesting thing is when I get bored, something clicks on upstairs that entertains me. Photography, computer project, girlfriend's homework, mathematics: there is something to entertain me. Right now I'm figuring out methods to incorporate fractals into functionary designs.

 

[something boring]

I don't think I've ever met an ENTP in real life. Where are they??? I know they're like, 1% of the population, but so is my type, and I've known 2 others. Where are the ENTPs?

 

[theadoor]

In my bed

 

[Asterion]

How J can you be? And if you can be really J like, are you still crazy and fun?

 

[Tamske]

I can get things done, even in advance, if I really need to. I can make a very methodical plan for something when I need to, when I'm interested in it or when I want to prove myself. I can still be crazy and fun. Cleaning the house doesn't stop you from singing random songs.

I absolutely hate "doing nothing and talking/complaining about real, existing things you can't change".
I don't like "work and talking about the work you're doing" Well I *am* cleaning now, why do we have to *talk* about cleaning, too?
I absolutely love "work and in the meantime discuss about theories/ literature/ banter and joke/ ..."
Yesterday, I've done dishes together with another teacher at school, and he asked me to explain the connection between quantum mechanics and relativity theory!
At another point yesterday I was standing with some other teachers, doing no work and discussing about how jobs were assigned to teachers. Now THAT's boring and, in my book, totally useless. (Well, it's not, as it gives the appearance of work being done, in contrast to the dishes example above, where real work is being done but it doesn't appear to be serious...)

 

[Asterion]

I can get things done, even in advance, if I really need to. I can make a very methodical plan for something when I need to, when I'm interested in it or when I want to prove myself. I can still be crazy and fun. Cleaning the house doesn't stop you from singing random songs.

I absolutely hate "doing nothing and talking/complaining about real, existing things you can't change".
I don't like "work and talking about the work you're doing" Well I *am* cleaning now, why do we have to *talk* about cleaning, too?
I absolutely love "work and in the meantime discuss about theories/ literature/ banter and joke/ ..."
Yesterday, I've done dishes together with another teacher at school, and he asked me to explain the connection between quantum mechanics and relativity theory!
At another point yesterday I was standing with some other teachers, doing no work and discussing about how jobs were assigned to teachers. Now THAT's boring and, in my book, totally useless. (Well, it's not, as it gives the appearance of work being done, in contrast to the dishes example above, where real work is being done but it doesn't appear to be serious...)

I thought J and getting things done were two different things? I guess they might correlate in some way.

Has there ever been a point that you could easily test as an J at all? I would have thought it nearly impossible unless you're a specific kind of ENTP, yet I know a dude who I think is misstyped himself as an ENTJ. I always thought there was a big difference between ENTJs and ENTPs... It may just be an E8 thing... maybe...

 

[Tamske]

Yeah, you're right, getting things done isn't the criterium for J-ness.
J = methodical, planning,...
I've got some J characteristics, but I won't mistake myself for one. I've also got this impression there is a big difference between ENTJ and ENTP, more than eg. between ENTP and INTP; or ENTP and ENFP. The ESTP-ENTP difference also seems a big one to me.
Maybe it has to do with the functions. The ENTP's NeTi is totally different from the ENTJ's TeNi; while NeTi and TiNe, well, that's just a bit shifting. ENTPs and ENFPs share Ne-dom while ESTPs and ENTPs only share Ti-aux.
But I'm also biased. I can find myself in the ENTP and the INTP descriptions (with slightly more E), and share some characteristics with the ENFP too. ENTJ? No, that's not me. At all.

I wonder if there are any ENTPs who lean towards ENTJ (or vice-versa).

 

[Synarch]

I don't get ENTJ's. They seem plodding rather than plotting.