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  1. #41
    Senior Member SubjectA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by run View Post
    I go to ask him what went wrong in a lesson and he bites my head off. "Well, you're mumbling, your hair's in your face, and you're dropping beats." 27 years of teaching teachers to teach the arts, and he still has almost no emotional intelligence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lethe View Post
    I kinda don't see how the first two statements are that important for someone like him to waste his breath on. I'd be disappointed to listen to those type of fluffy feedback unless I'm in a communications course or something.

    So have you tried narrowing down the types of improvement you're aiming to hear? (Re: Ask him to give advice that's actually relevant and crucial to the subject. The more specific you are, I hope his answers will be as helpful.)
    Yes, I'm quite surprised that an INTJ would say those things, too. INTJ's can be so obsessed with efficiency that they won't waste their breath to say things like that. Unless it's criticism that we believe you can benefit from, we usually don't even bother.
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  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by SubjectA View Post
    Yes, I'm quite surprised that an INTJ would say those things, too. INTJ's can be so obsessed with efficiency that they won't waste their breath to say things like that. Unless it's criticism that we believe you can benefit from, we usually don't even bother.
    Perhaps they think they are really that bad? INTJs can be horribly honest when pushed into the 'non-comfort' zone.

  3. #43
    Senior Member MonkeyGrass's Avatar
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    I guess I'm wondering what you're looking for here. A thumbs-up from this guy? Probably, criticism is the most emotional depth you're going to get out of this relationship with an (I assume very stressed out...this time of year is hell for music instructors) INTJ. You may do best to take the criticism, weigh out whether there's truth to it, apply it, and move on.

    Let me tell you a story about being a music teacher at the end of the Christmas semester in particular: students like to fall apart emotionally during their lessons. The stress of exams/juries/projects/etc gets to the student, a lesson tends to be the only real one-on-one mentor relationship they have for an hour out of the week, and thus, students fall. apart. They come in and *cry*. They whine about girlfriends, they whine about lack of sleep, they cry about not passing courses, they cry about stress. A lot of students treat their music lessons like counseling sessions. And being locked in a room for an hour several times a day with emotional diarrhea is NOT your average over-worked INTJ's idea of fun. He's not emotionally equipped for that level of intense emotion.

    That's probably why you got the explosive, acrid, vague criticism.

    I wouldn't sweat whether he likes you so much, and just treat the relationship as an exchange of information.
    I think I think more than you think I think.

  4. #44
    Senior Member Cranky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyGrass View Post
    I guess I'm wondering what you're looking for here. A thumbs-up from this guy? Probably, criticism is the most emotional depth you're going to get out of this relationship with an (I assume very stressed out...this time of year is hell for music instructors) INTJ. You may do best to take the criticism, weigh out whether there's truth to it, apply it, and move on.

    Let me tell you a story about being a music teacher at the end of the Christmas semester in particular: students like to fall apart emotionally during their lessons. The stress of exams/juries/projects/etc gets to the student, a lesson tends to be the only real one-on-one mentor relationship they have for an hour out of the week, and thus, students fall. apart. They come in and *cry*. They whine about girlfriends, they whine about lack of sleep, they cry about not passing courses, they cry about stress. A lot of students treat their music lessons like counseling sessions. And being locked in a room for an hour several times a day with emotional diarrhea is NOT your average over-worked INTJ's idea of fun. He's not emotionally equipped for that level of intense emotion.

    That's probably why you got the explosive, acrid, vague criticism.

    I wouldn't sweat whether he likes you so much, and just treat the relationship as an exchange of information.
    I agree. I've taught classes too, and students are exhausted, miserable, overworked, and are learning for the first time in their life that none of that matters if you don't get your work done.

    It made me snappish, cold, and unsympathetic, unfortunately. I tried, but I was exhausted, overworked, and less than patient. Listen to the criticism and try not to take it personally.
    Personally, *I* think I'm hysterically funny.

  5. #45
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    This is why emotional maturity lessons should be part of a students curriculum. It's like the most neglected subject ever and everybody passes the buck or tells people to 'man up' already, as they cannot/will not, don't wanna go near the drama of others as well as having to deal with their own shit. 'It's not my job!'. And they're right..but the problem is that it's nobody's job. And there's no solution for it. So it's bound to spill over to other areas.
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  6. #46
    Senior Member run's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    This is why emotional maturity lessons should be part of a students curriculum. It's like the most neglected subject ever and everybody passes the buck or tells people to 'man up' already, as they cannot/will not, don't wanna go near the drama of others as well as having to deal with their own shit. 'It's not my job!'. And they're right..but the problem is that it's nobody's job. And there's no solution for it. So it's bound to spill over to other areas.
    I agree but I don't agree with that solution. Instead of standardizing the subject of "emotional maturity" alongside intellectual maturity, I think when teachers learn to teach, they should learn to be more emotionally mature and aware. Then, students will learn. I can learn emotionally valuable things from my teachers without ever having an objective lesson. These are feelings we're talking about. They made me feel worthy of respect, feel important, feel confident, and above all, made me feel my feelings were valid to begin with. I think there is an abstract language for conveying these things. After all, did you learn what you know about emotional intelligence from a classroom? The world is the classroom. Wouldn't you say that experience is the best teacher?

  7. #47
    Senior Member SubjectA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by run View Post
    I agree but I don't agree with that solution. Instead of standardizing the subject of "emotional maturity" alongside intellectual maturity, I think when teachers learn to teach, they should learn to be more emotionally mature and aware. Then, students will learn. I can learn emotionally valuable things from my teachers without ever having an objective lesson. These are feelings we're talking about. They made me feel worthy of respect, feel important, feel confident, and above all, made me feel my feelings were valid to begin with. I think there is an abstract language for conveying these things. After all, did you learn what you know about emotional intelligence from a classroom? The world is the classroom. Wouldn't you say that experience is the best teacher?
    Since experience is the best teacher, I don't think that a professor should be required to cater to each student's personal needs outside of intellectual pursuits. Not everyone in the world is going to be sensitive to your emotions, and you need to learn how to deal with those kinds of people. If what you suggested was implemented, how would you be able to learn about these types of things? MonkeyGrass is right, your teacher is probably stressed himself, as the holidays are remarkably stressful for anyone who's in any sort of a music ensemble. If I were you, I wouldn't take his harsh criticisms to heart. If you want more specific feedback, be more specific when you ask him. If you demonstrate to him that you're actually trying to improve, he may be a little more gentle with you.
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  8. #48
    Senior Member MonkeyGrass's Avatar
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    I agree with Amargith, 100%.


    Yes, in an ideal world, teachers would be emotionally mature. Keep in mind, though, that even an emotionally mature teacher will look at the student and say, "That's your issue, not mine. My job is to teach XYZ. This is out of my bounds, and it's not really appropriate for me to counsel you this way." I think it's important to remember that it's their job to prepare you for a career, and they won't be doing you any favors by making themselves responsible for *your* emotions. Your future employer sure won't.

    Basically put, wherever your parents left of emotionally (however well or poorly they taught you), it's not your teachers' job to pick up the ball and keep running. It's yours. No one else will ever be responsible for making sure you've reached emotional maturity except yourself, unless you visit a life coach or a therapist.
    I think I think more than you think I think.

  9. #49
    Senior Member run's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyGrass View Post
    I agree with Amargith, 100%.


    Yes, in an ideal world, teachers would be emotionally mature. Keep in mind, though, that even an emotionally mature teacher will look at the student and say, "That's your issue, not mine. My job is to teach XYZ. This is out of my bounds, and it's not really appropriate for me to counsel you this way."
    All I'm asking is "Don't be an ass"
    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyGrass View Post

    by making themselves responsible for *your* emotions. Your future employer sure won't.
    We're all repsonsible for eachother's emotions (in a way). We can't go barking at eachother all the time and saying whatever we feel like and whatever first comes to mind. We're emotional beings. We have a responsibility to think before we talk. Our words affect (and effect) eachother.

  10. #50
    Senior Member MonkeyGrass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by run View Post
    All I'm asking is "Don't be an ass"

    We're all repsonsible for eachother's emotions (in a way). We can't go barking at each other all the time and saying whatever we feel like and whatever first comes to mind. We're emotional beings. We have a responsibility to think before we talk. Our words affect (and effect) eachother.
    I do agree with you to a point. However, you did say that you *asked* your teacher where he thought your lesson went wrong. Combine you literally asking for it with the fact that this is a high stress time of year for a teacher, you've got an imperfect human response. I'm sorry you caught the brunt of someone's grouchiness.

    A good thing to keep in mind is that we're all capable of being an ass from time to time, although when pushed hard, some more than others.


    This whole scenario reminds me of :
    [youtube="bB1F86_U96M"]JD vs Dr. Cox[/youtube]
    I think I think more than you think I think.

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