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  1. #31
    That chalkboard guy Matthew_Z's Avatar
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    One need not use to Te to be satisfied by any sort of "proof." (proof, as it applies beyond a merely formal mathematical sense) Getting one step closer to certainty absolute is a wonderful and sobering experience, regardless of function used.

    I'm not too much of an Ni user, but I'll give you my impressions of Ni+Te:

    Ni is a function of vision. It sees angles. It can conceptualize all angles at once. It sees an unseen reality. Te follows this vision and makes visible what was previously unseen. In INTJs, it need to expand the vision as much as it need accomplish it. In other words, Ni gives Te a destination which Te reaches in the most efficient way possible. In a Te>Ni situation, more emphasis is paid on reaching the goal that realizing it, but both functions still keep their respective roles.

    Relative to Ti+Ne, Ni+Te doesn't need to fill in any "gaps" of this vision. Ni has already conceptualized all of the pertinent components. Even with Ni as the dominant function, the Ni/Te combination stresses action. (although not necessarily in a strictly physical sense)
    If a deaf INFP falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

  2. #32
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    " Ni has already conceptualized all of the pertinent components"

    Expound on this, preeze.

    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  3. #33
    That chalkboard guy Matthew_Z's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SillySapienne View Post
    " Ni has already conceptualized all of the pertinent components"

    Expound on this, preeze.

    Ni does not desire to get bogged down with details. It selects the ones most important to realizing its vision. Once it finds all the routes necessary to reach the goal, it doesn't bother with the thought of "in retrospect, this also works," which Ni is inclined to find arbitrary.

    To stereotype, the Ni(+Te) villain isn't going to ponder "hmm... I've spent do much time trying to kill you. It wouldn't be the same if you were gone." The Ni villain is simply going to finish the plan.
    If a deaf INFP falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

  4. #34
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    So their visions are intrinsically founded without any help from experience and observation?!?!?
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  5. #35
    That chalkboard guy Matthew_Z's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SillySapienne View Post
    So their visions are intrinsically founded without any help from experience and observation?!?!?
    It's not without experience and observation as much as it is with MINIMAL experience and observation. Once Ni has seen enough, it acts.
    If a deaf INFP falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

  6. #36
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew_Z View Post
    It's not without experience and observation as much as it is with MINIMAL experience and observation. Once Ni has seen enough, it acts.
    Hmm, the same could be said for Ne, except we don't act, as much as ask.

    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  7. #37
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Pertinent components.

    Something about boobs.


    That's Ni.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  8. #38
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    B>>bs being the Se you're always talking about, I presume.

    Perhaps Ni is the lube for the Te, or vice versa.
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  9. #39
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    You asked if the visions were founded without experience or observation. This would be a literal impossibility. The visions arrive from day one and compound with the experience of day two, and then day three, and so on, until we reach approximately day 29,200 and die. Se being weak or not, it has been inputting information from the beginning, along with books, experiences, tests, accidents and so forth. It is like any introverted function, and not like any extroverted function, it acquires depth and perception as it ages. It has access to the entire world in there.


    And before too much more irritating is said, Ne is meant to work on Si. Si having a very clear and detailed picture of what was, will become hidebound and moribund without someone to suggest that sometimes there are new ways to do something or even that there may be--horror!--new things to see. For Ni, it's Se that tells it something new, not about possibility, because it already knows that, but about reality, what's there right now.

    And that's (I think, a big part of) why INTJs are pragmatists. Because we have almost no ability to care directly about the past. The past will appear as warnings in Ni perspectives on the future, but not as particularly efficacious memories themselves. I wonder sometimes if this is really true because it's a little scary, but there it is.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  10. #40
    Supreme High Commander Andy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SillySapienne View Post
    Kk, question.

    How affiliated is Te with mathematical skillz?!!?!

    Even though my Te is tertiary, I've always had mathematical skills, also...

    Geometry, and solving geometrical proofs was like... delciously fun for me to do!!!

    It's this Ni function that I find most peculiar.

    I value my ability to have the capacity to *grasp* most things/ideas/concepts.

    But Ni, is like.... wtf?!!??

    Ne and Fi for me is just, I dunno, *knowing* things deep inside, as I am being objected to them, simultaneously.

    And, especially with regards to people.

    Also, Ne is like seeing/feeling/making/understanding all the seemingly disparate connections between two "separate" things.

    Nothing is "separate", in fact, everything is connected.


    Attribute functions are not skills. They provide driving forces to act/think in a particular way, and it is these behaviour paterns that result in skills developing. However, under the right circumstances an attribute function can lead to the development of a skill not normally associated with it.

    I'll give an example. An INTP followed the call of his Ti and became a theoretical mathematician. Later he has an INFP daughter. Their prime functions, Ti and Fi are mutually opposed to each other, so the two of them rearly see eye to eye, leading to poor relations between them as she get older. However the daughters Fi function is telling her that she would rather get along with her father. To bridge the gap she tries to take an interest in his work, so they will have something to talk about. This leads to her having a talent for mathematics, but the driving force was Fi, not Ti or Te!

    Te can lead to development of maths skills, as they often help to get the job done, but it could just as well result in a talent for public speaking, sign language or anything else it thinks is required to get the job done.

    If you enjoyed matha, it was probably because it appealed to your Ne function. Many mathematical problems can be solved easily by going about them in the right way, but finding that way requires imagination. Every step in a proof is logical - except the first one, because knowing where to start is more a feat of intuition than anything else.

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