[INTJ] They who annoy INTJs

[Mr.Time]

So, I have found from my past encounters with all types of people that there is one specific type of person who annoys me the most. Since I am a male INTJ, I will make the assumption that at least all the other male INTJs (most of them at least) will agree with me on this matter. I dont know about the females. This one specific type of person who really gets on my nerves is usually a female (b/c I cant imagine nor have met any male who acts as I will describe).

So this type of girl is usually always talking. Talking about nonsense. Talking about how wonderful life is. Talking about how happy she is. Talking about how excited she is about her future. Updating her Facebook status every hour (like her life is that important). Always gives that fake smile (seems fake to me at least). I'm so disgusted just thinking about it. During lunch or dinner somewhere, she will be the one talking to everyone about her quirky brother-in-law who is this and that and does awesome funny stuff, and then goes on to state how weird her family is and how much she loves them and how much she loves her nephews and nieces and goes onto to describe the origin or their names. So I basically learn everything about her life (sort of, because I usually start thinking about more important things in my life...she's mentioned her nephews and nieces names several times, but I still have no idea what they are). "Important" is a subjective word, I understand, but even so, how much did I have to tolerate?

Specifically, I have met two girls in my life who were extremes at this, one very recently. When I was having a conversation with this recent girl and our ENFP friend (notice I said "our", otherwise I would never have had that conversation), I noticed how half the things I said just flew over her head. This is not in the context that she is stupid (in the traditional sense of the word), because she gets decent grades and stuff (and is a physics major just like me and my ENFP friend), but just in the sense that she didn't seem to understand my words. It was actually funny because my ENFP friend had to translate several times what I said so that this girl could understand. The ENFP was so on top of everything I said, it was scary.

Other things I've noticed about these (extremely annoying) two girls is that they seemed to have a thing for me, even though it was far from my mind. Both of them particularly had this way of randomly walking up to me and seating themselves right next to me (very close). I would simply not make any move or say anything, so then, they would eventually get up and walk away.

Anyways, the purpose of this thread is to help me figure out (or state to me if you already know) what type are these girls. I will state for sure that they're E (for obvious reasons). Both of these girls were also neat in their handwriting (my simplest method of detecting J/P), so I will state that they were J's as well. Details aside, I've seen them present PowerPoint presentations as well, and they were effectively organized, so more indication of being J over P (b/c P's are usually messy).

Overall, my guess (out of my intuition) is ESFJ, but I really have no idea! Plus, on another note, I can't help wonder why this girl is majoring in physics (an object oriented field) when she is clearly only interested in people? Not to seem arrogant, but I highly doubt she will succeed in the future...just being realistic.

 

[Two Point Two]

Both of these girls were also neat in their handwriting (my simplest method of detecting J/P), so I will state that they were J's as well. Details aside, I've seen them present PowerPoint presentations as well, and they were effectively organized, so more indication of being J over P (b/c P's are usually messy).

I'm not at all convinced by this.

Not saying they're Ps, but neatness of handwriting and capacity to put together a well-set-out powerpoint presentation do not a J make. For a start, I have terrible handwriting, and additionally, ExFPs at least have tertiary Te and from my experience can quite enjoy organising things occasionally.

 

[musicheck]

The fun thing (as an INTJ) about ESFJ's and their Wonderful Futures is in reality how many millions of times further you will go in life than they will. The annoyance easily becomes a knowing schadenfreude.

 

[Oaky]

So, I have found from my past encounters with all types of people that there is one specific type of person who annoys me the most. Since I am a male INTJ, I will make the assumption that at least all the other male INTJs (most of them at least) will agree with me on this matter. I dont know about the females. This one specific type of person who really gets on my nerves is usually a female (b/c I cant imagine nor have met any male who acts as I will describe).

So this type of girl is usually always talking. Talking about nonsense. Talking about how wonderful life is. Talking about how happy she is. Talking about how excited she is about her future. Updating her Facebook status every hour (like her life is that important). Always gives that fake smile (seems fake to me at least). I'm so disgusted just thinking about it. During lunch or dinner somewhere, she will be the one talking to everyone about her quirky brother-in-law who is this and that and does awesome funny stuff, and then goes on to state how weird her family is and how much she loves them and how much she loves her nephews and nieces and goes onto to describe the origin or their names. So I basically learn everything about her life (sort of, because I usually start thinking about more important things in my life...she's mentioned her nephews and nieces names several times, but I still have no idea what they are). "Important" is a subjective word, I understand, but even so, how much did I have to tolerate?

Specifically, I have met two girls in my life who were extremes at this, one very recently. When I was having a conversation with this recent girl and our ENFP friend (notice I said "our", otherwise I would never have had that conversation), I noticed how half the things I said just flew over her head. This is not in the context that she is stupid (in the traditional sense of the word), because she gets decent grades and stuff (and is a physics major just like me and my ENFP friend), but just in the sense that she didn't seem to understand my words. It was actually funny because my ENFP friend had to translate several times what I said so that this girl could understand. The ENFP was so on top of everything I said, it was scary.

Other things I've noticed about these (extremely annoying) two girls is that they seemed to have a thing for me, even though it was far from my mind. Both of them particularly had this way of randomly walking up to me and seating themselves right next to me (very close). I would simply not make any move or say anything, so then, they would eventually get up and walk away.

Anyways, the purpose of this thread is to help me figure out (or state to me if you already know) what type are these girls. I will state for sure that they're E (for obvious reasons). Both of these girls were also neat in their handwriting (my simplest method of detecting J/P), so I will state that they were J's as well. Details aside, I've seen them present PowerPoint presentations as well, and they were effectively organized, so more indication of being J over P (b/c P's are usually messy).

Overall, my guess (out of my intuition) is ESFJ, but I really have no idea! Plus, on another note, I can't help wonder why this girl is majoring in physics (an object oriented field) when she is clearly only interested in people? Not to seem arrogant, but I highly doubt she will succeed in the future...just being realistic.

I used to call the people you are describing now, 'trash'. Of course I was much more naive back then. I know how you feel about these girls but there is no point in getting annoyed at them. I'm not sure what exactly you want, maybe you just want to let out your anger here or whatnot. If you want some advice, just avoid them or next time they say something that annoys you don't get annoyed. If they keep pestering you, either ignore them or tell them "I don't believe you" or "stop exaggerating". That would pull them off their high horse although you may fall down too once their rumours start to spread. You are human as they are. You are also underestimating them to a certain extent.

Although they are most likely ESFJs it is stupid to make the assumption that they are J based on their handwriting as TwoPointTwo said. I know many Js, including myself, who don't have such good handwriting whereas many Ps do.

To be honest, if you don't want to see them again you can tell them "I don't like you" to their face. It's not worth getting irritated at.

There is absolutely no point in getting annoyed at such trivial things. I'm sure many people get annoyed at them. If they are indeed annoying it shouldn't be something you can't deal with.

 

[InvisibleJim]

Its better to avoid than to bring people down for no reason. You'll find these people can be interesting if you can share a common topic or two; just make sure they have someone else around when they want to small talk. They are just bundles of energy.

 

[Litvyak]

Since I am a male INTJ, I will make the assumption that at least all the other male INTJs (most of them at least) will agree with me on this matter.

This is a wild and misleading assumption.

So I basically learn everything about her life (sort of, because I usually start thinking about more important things in my life...she's mentioned her nephews and nieces names several times, but I still have no idea what they are). "Important" is a subjective word, I understand, but even so, how much did I have to tolerate?

It's interesting to see how you unconciously compare your "deep and serious" nature with these seemingly "shallow" girls without grasping even the most basic concepts of human nature and relationships. What you see is the surface, and you may never know what lies underneath it. Everything you see and hear is a girl who talks a lot about family matters and such - nothing more, nothing less. She may be stupid and superficial, she may be hiding something from the public, she may be deep and intelligent and in need for more affection etc.

In this case, perhaps it's a simple communication problem between types. You're different and you don't "get" each other.

You're awfully quick to judge, so your results are screwed. And btw, don't use handwriting to determine the J/P axis, my handwriting is like shit, and I'm the only person capable of reading it. I'm still a J.

I can't help wonder why this girl is majoring in physics (an object oriented field) when she is clearly only interested in people? Not to seem arrogant, but I highly doubt she will succeed in the future...just being realistic.

Ok, so you spent like... two hours with her? Perhaps a day? INTJs were ALWAYS known for their godlike people skills, so that's surely enough time to determine if somebody will be successful in their career.
If she is majoring in physics, she is in fact interested in things other than people, you simply don't know her / know only this one side of her personality.

Which one of these statements are more likely to be true?

~ There's this girl who is only interested in people (which you've managed to determine almost instantly and without having really deep conversations with her), yet she somehow ended up in the physics department by her own free will;

~ There's this girl who attends physics AND is interested in people, increasing the propability for her to be more complex than the superficial type you've described in the first paragraph?

I used to call the people you are describing now, 'trash'. Of course I was much more naive back then.

^ Interesting. I used to call people who think and talk like this 'trash'.
Of course I was much more naive back then.

 

[HomerSoprano]

I´m sure she is ESFP since you´re INTJ and after the descrition you gave of her. I´ve discovered that two people that are completely opposite usually ends up in conflict. And if she would have been ESFJ you two would have liked each other more because I´ve also discovered that people who only have the J/P in common like/need each other.

Talking about nonsense like an ESFP does might be irritating but nothing gets me more on my nerves like an INTJ who insults people left and right without knowing what the hell he´s saying really.

 

[Oaky]

^ Interesting. I used to call people who think and talk like this 'trash'.
Of course I was much more naive back then.

Oh I do love it when people have no clue what they're talking about.

 

[Litvyak]

Please teach me master. May I bow before your wisdom?

 

[Oaky]

You are not worthy.

 

[MonkeyGrass]

Oh, you INTJs. Watching you guys disagree is sometimes like watching a ping pong match where each player catches the ball, stuffs it in their mouth and eats it, and starts playing with a new one altogether. "I reject your argument, and chose to attack you on some other point altogether!"

I'm likely going to regret saying that.

I've watched a couple of INTJs instantly assume they have a person's number (yes, in my case INTJ men who are annoyed with really chatty/animated girls) and greatly underestimate that person's competance and intelligence, making an ass of themselves in the end.

That said, while that can be a pitfall of any type who doesn't naturally come by stellar people skills, it's not really an INTJ trait, from what I've observed. The conclusion jumping and seeing people as two dimensional usually just means that the person lacks relational experience, or isn't asking the right questions to get to know them further.

It's silly to assume that because I person is talkative/bubbly/energetic vs. dry/reserved/serious that they're less intelligent or capable of making connections. Some of the most wildly intelligent people I know can prattle incessantly about minutia, only to blow me away with something really insightful and original when I really need to hear it.

 

[Little Linguist]

^^^ *ahem* Alpha males *ahem*

 

[Kalach]

Oh, you INTJs. Watching you guys disagree is sometimes like watching a ping pong match where each player catches the ball, stuffs it in their mouth and eats it, and starts playing with a new one altogether. "I reject your argument, and chose to attack you on some other point altogether!"

I'm likely going to regret saying that.

I've watched a couple of INTJs instantly assume they have a person's number (yes, in my case INTJ men who are annoyed with really chatty/animated girls) and greatly underestimate that person's competance and intelligence, making an ass of themselves in the end.

That said, while that can be a pitfall of any type who doesn't naturally come by stellar people skills, it's not really an INTJ trait, from what I've observed. The conclusion jumping and seeing people as two dimensional usually just means that the person lacks relational experience, or isn't asking the right questions to get to know them further.

It's silly to assume that because I person is talkative/bubbly/energetic vs. dry/reserved/serious that they're less intelligent or capable of making connections. Some of the most wildly intelligent people I know can prattle incessantly about minutia, only to blow me away with something really insightful and original when I really need to hear it.

You know you do the same thing, though, right?

That first paragraph... same thing. The suggestion that because the kiddies were failing to properly address each other as respectable people there was probably something wrong with both sides' arguments.

INTJs and INFJs, directing by aiming scorn at that which does not meet the requirements of their extraverted judgment function. Where an E would actually do something to create the new situation, the I--well, they call it charting the course, but that's just being polite.


I suppose it is course charting, in a way. For thems that are in want of some Je, an INXJ hanging around being snappish about their preferred way of doing things...

 

[paperoceans]

People like that do not annoy me. She sounds friendly to me, obviously you're the one with the problem.

I make it a point to never be cruel or judgmental when it comes to people... It was hard at first, but you have to accept that you're not going to get along with everyone that you come in contact with. This doesn't make them "annoying", it's just a clash of interests. And like I always say, treat someone with kindness because you never know when you'll need them. Maybe because I was bullied in secondary school I'm more prone to treat people with the respect that they deserve. There's no need to be hostile. If she's talking about her family then change the topic. You may end up liking her if you gave her a chance.

 

[MonkeyGrass]

You know you do the same thing, though, right?

That first paragraph... same thing. The suggestion that because the kiddies were failing to properly address each other as respectable people there was probably something wrong with both sides' arguments.

INTJs and INFJs, directing by aiming scorn at that which does not meet the requirements of their extraverted judgment function. Where an E would actually do something to create the new situation, the I--well, they call it charting the course, but that's just being polite.


I suppose it is course charting, in a way. For thems that are in want of some Je, an INXJ hanging around being snappish about their preferred way of doing things...

That first paragraph was a sad attempt to interject humor into what appeared to be a tense conversation that was veering of the original track...I wasn't feeling scornful, actually, just a little amused at what looked from the outside like a disjointed tit for tat.

I actually don't assume at all that the good fellows in this conversation are two dimensional at all. I guessed that they'd pick up on my tongue in cheek teasing and lighten up a little...which isn't something a person might expect from a two dimensional person.

 

[Mr.Time]

Its funny how most of you are criticizing me. And very few of you actually addressed my question of what MBTI type she is and why?

I actually did spend months hanging out with her (and her ENFP friend ). It was only irritating b/c I had to hang out with her as well. I studied her as deep as possible since she was a close friend of the other friend (items I guess I should have mentioned, but seeing that the OP is already several paragraphs long, I left out). But really, I found very little underneath. As for physics, there really seemed to be no interest on her part (other than her mention of how interested she was). She didn't seem to grasp the most fundamental of concepts of what I was talking about.

As for you INTJs who have already seen the light (that I haven't yet), I suggest....

You guys are probably right about the J/P thing. I will need to figure out a new way to judge J/P differences. Any suggestions?

 

[LotsOfHeart]

I can definitely relate to being annoyed by some of these types of girls. I ran into them mainly in high school though. I would think, "Why are they so cheerful? Life isn't all smiling and laughing." I think they were probably ESFx depending on the person but you never know for sure. Definitely E something.

The thing I've learned, though, is that like some others are saying, there is more than just what you see on the surface. Some of these girls might be going through things in life that you have no clue about; you never know. Women, especially younger women, in our society are also pressured and conditioned to act like this. They're often expected to be nice, happy and smiling. If they're not, they can be socially ridiculed and have a multitude of problems. They might even be smarter than they seem, they may be hiding it because they feel that they have to. There are the girls who are genuinely shallow, and others who are just putting on. When they get older, they will probably outgrow this behavior to a large degree, although not all of them will.

I agree sometimes that whole bubbly thing can be pretty annoying to introverts because it is phony to a degree. Introverted intuitives seem to like to view the world both as the way it is but also as the way it could/should be. I see people who act in a way that seems phony to me and I say, "Why can't they just be real?" The answer, I've found, is because they're so conditioned to be influenced by the outer world that they have lost touch in many ways with their inner selves. That's why you can't have a deep conversation with many of them. They are not thinking about their behavior that deeply, if at all. They've figured out that acting this way for now makes life pleasant for them: it makes them friends and people seem to like them, so why change? They're happy this way. While I agree those who are deeper emotionally and intellectually probably aren't going to have a whole lot to say to these people, they have a right to live how they want. This outlook on life doesn't make them bad people, but it means they should take care to develop their inner lives, just as introverts need to work on developing their outer lives.

Lastly, if this girl is paying attention to you and seems to like you, be thankful. The girls like that who I encountered in school were extremely stuck up and snobby, and had little to no tolerance for anyone who was different than they were. At least this girl seems to be thinking, "Hey this guy is interesting, let me see if I can find out more." Say hi to her, give her a chance, you might even take her out sometime and enjoy it more than you ever could have imagined. And if you don't, no big deal, you have plenty of time to see other people.

 

[Amargith]

Ask your ENFP friend for her opinion. Learn why she does or does not value the alledged ESFP. She's more likely to be able to help you understand than any of us.

 

[Eowyn]

I've watched a couple of INTJs instantly assume they have a person's number (yes, in my case INTJ men who are annoyed with really chatty/animated girls) and greatly underestimate that person's competance and intelligence, making an ass of themselves in the end.

That they do. And then they propose to the ESFP in question and live in interestingly defined peace and harmony for the rest of their lives.

Yeah, I think she's an ESFP.

 

[HomerSoprano]

That they do. And then they propose to the ESFP in question and live in interestingly defined peace and harmony for the rest of their lives.

Yeah, I think she's an ESFP.

An INTJ will not live happily for the rest of his life with an ESFP. An INTP might though.