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  1. #21
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    ETJs are typically 8s or 3s, so there's usually a desire to integrate to 2 or it's a wing. You'll see the desire to help manifest rather materially though; they'll help through either actionable plans that solve your problem or they'll attempt to remove material constraints that are troubling you. Think Nucky Thompson in Boardwalk Empire.

    The obliviousness to the feelings is part of the type. They won't immediately think the solution to your problem can be resolved through simply listening or by being sympathetic, so that's not what they think to supply.
    Yeah, I have definitely noticed that while the willingness to help is great, they would often jump too quickly to offer a solution. I think things are likely to work best if a type like INFJ explains to a type like ExTJ that they may actually be looking more to vent than to immediately find a solution (or maybe the INFJ should just vent to someone else first!!), or ask the ExTJ to wait and hear the whole story before jumping to offer a solution.

    I do really like people who want to help, though! It can excuse a bit of obliviousness to feelings.
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  2. #22
    Senior Member Sizzling Berry's Avatar
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    @JocktheMotie

    You are right. However, I wonder if the difference is not hidden even deeper than not thinking about listening at first. When I tell ENTJ that I need just listening to I get complete silence. Not active/sympathetic listening - just silence with occasional questions about what I'm planning to do about the situation.

    Usually the emotional vibe from the silent ENTJ seems like this (while I'm talking about my problem):

    Stage 1: Frustration - "why was my plan not taken? It was a good plan. So there won't be any plan???"

    Stage 2: Hurt - "fine!!! I just wanted to help and it wasn't accepted. That sucks. I'm hurt now."

    Stage 3: Some more frustration - "OK, just bare with it and don't suggest any plan." (this actually looks like a struggle)

    Here, I usually find a resolution on my own and I'm starting to calm down.

    Stage 4: Back in the game - "ooh finally a plan. Let's repair it. Glad to be of help. "

    This is how the inner dialogue of the ENTJ looks from outside. I don't know if it's at all accurate but it looks like that to me.

    It doesn't look like not thinking about listening. It looks like inability to focus on feelings when there is a current problem.
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  3. #23
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sizzling Berry View Post
    @JocktheMotie

    You are right. However, I wonder if the difference is not hidden even deeper than not thinking about listening at first. When I tell ENTJ that I need just listening to I get complete silence. Not active/sympathetic listening - just silence with occasional questions about what I'm planning to do about the situation.

    Usually the emotional vibe from the silent ENTJ seems like this (while I'm talking about my problem):

    Stage 1: Frustration - "why was my plan not taken? It was a good plan. So there won't be any plan???"

    Stage 2: Hurt - "fine!!! I just wanted to help and it wasn't accepted. That sucks. I'm hurt now."

    Stage 3: Some more frustration - "OK, just bare with it and don't suggest any plan." (this actually looks like a struggle)

    Here, I usually find a resolution on my own and I'm starting to calm down.

    Stage 4: Back in the game - "ooh finally a plan. Let's repair it. Glad to be of help. "

    This is how the inner dialogue of the ENTJ looks from outside. I don't know if it's at all accurate but it looks like that to me.

    It doesn't look like not thinking about listening. It looks like inability to focus on feelings when there is a current problem.
    Well sure, it can go a little deeper than that. As Te doms are Fi inferior, they can probably go as far as fearing emotional reasoning and distrusting its output. Which is why they may not be able to understand why you want to bother explaining those feelings and working them out, they simply think "the answer" just won't be found there.

    And it's not "inability." No type is unable to do something. It's just that types may not see certain observations or behaviors to be useful, or worthwhile, or important for various reasons. This in itself is what typology attempts to illustrate in the first place.



  4. #24
    Señora Member Elfa's Avatar
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    Yeah, the ENTJ I know is always willing to help anyone and offer advices. But he doesn't trust himself in doing only listening, without offering advices. So sometimes it can be somewhat frustrating to try to vent to them.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Sizzling Berry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    And it's not "inability." No type is unable to do something. It's just that types may not see certain observations or behaviors to be useful, or worthwhile, or important for various reasons. This in itself is what typology attempts to illustrate in the first place.
    1) Motivation is hard to divorce from performance. 2) An untrained muscle gets weaker. If you believe something to be not useful, or worthwhile, or important do you give it your best or do you develop it in yourself?
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  6. #26
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    I really appreciate ENTJs and their natural gift for problem solving. They may not be touchy feely about things, but so long as you understand that their willingness to generate solutions is them showing their caring... you are set for a great mutual respect.

    edit: this is what makes @Wind-Up Rex so extra lovely.

  7. #27
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    Yah I usually have to hold my self back from saying " this is what you should do". Like I tell my friends. Don't bitch if you don't expect bitching back.

  8. #28
    Senior Member tibby's Avatar
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    In ENTJ mate's words: "that's the one thing I'm good at, solving people's problems, except for my own". And he really is, very supportive & compassionate & good problem-solver.

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