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[NT] Why are INTs so... NICE?

Gothmawg

New member
Joined
Oct 7, 2009
Messages
37
MBTI Type
INFP
INTP (such as myself) can be "full of ourselves" both here and irl,
however, when, particularly when a F "pulls us into their world", the F can dominate (at least temporarily) and if done right even be greatly appreciated by the INT.

I agree. I have seen an INT turn to total goo right in my hands. :devil:
 

Litvyak

No Cigar
Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
1,822
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I think most people are wrong by thinking we always stick to the 'logical' way of problem solving - at least I definitely don't. I'm not sure about INTPs, but INTJs are actually less rational than they seem to be. It's good to avoid unnecessary fighting and some things needn't (and shouldn't) always be openly judged, but losing an argument for the sake of possible (social) benefits sounds really... cheap to me. I'd feel like a loser. I know it could be advantageous, but I still couldn't force myself to do it.

This is only a side note, and possibly only my own flaw.
 

Oaky

Travelling mind
Joined
Jan 15, 2009
Messages
6,180
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so

Spamtar

Ghost Monkey Soul
Joined
Sep 1, 2009
Messages
4,468
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INTP
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5w4
It's good to avoid unnecessary fighting and some things needn't (and shouldn't) always be openly judged, but losing an argument for the sake of possible (social) benefits sounds really... cheap to me. I'd feel like a loser. I know it could be advantageous, but I still couldn't force myself to do it.

This is only a side note, and possibly only my own flaw.

Perhaps if you considered it a strategic retreat.

PS. Winged what happened to your post? you brought up some great points. One of them paraphrased is that especially irl, was that often presentation is more strategic element to winning or achieving interpersonal harmony.
 

Zoom

Self sustaining supernova
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
1,045
Enneagram
9w8
I have an odd bit about posting in threads that are very well into the discussion - oftentimes it seems like people aren't really listening, and I am unsure as to how pertinent my points are, at times. However, I'll try to reiterate.

Others' ears oftentimes close when ye're rude to them, and presentation of data can be as important as the information itself when it comes to interpersonal communications.

I will not strike out verbally in anger - it would go against one of my few and primary tenets. As overwhelming and fiery as emotions can be, ye cannot take back vitriolic words and being accurate the first time is truly important.

Knowledge of something new (including people) can never be assumed on my part, so I always ask. The quietly unassuming, non-judgemental nature of my curiosity comes off as extremely polite from what I've heard. For some reason people seem to believe that one cannot think negative or angry thoughts whilst having an entirely neutral expression.
 

Two Point Two

New member
Joined
Dec 10, 2008
Messages
200
MBTI Type
INTJ
I have not read the whole thread, but:

You know, it recently occurred to me that I've actually very rarely had an INTx say something rude or blunt to me. I mean, occasionally, yes, but not more often than Fs, who seem equally likely to lash out at me.

I tend to assume that they would be more willing to, but often they aren't.
I don't know what to say here. I don't know enough other INTs to have formed a generalised opinion about them, but I know I go out of my way to avoid being rude or mean to people. I'm opposed to causing harm, so I really don't want to hurt feelings. I phrase criticism constructively and never attack anything at a personal level.

That said, I don't go out of my way to be particularly nice very often. Helpful, yes, but not so much nice. It's more...neutral treatment, I guess. It could probably be interpreted as rude or cold, but it's really just me conserving energy while trying not to negatively impact people, getting on with my life and letting everyone else get on with theirs.

So, never intentionally rude or blunt, but not overly skilled in my attempts to nicen things up, and so probably come across as cold. Also inclined to think that if that's so, people can just deal with it, because I've done as much as I can.

What's more, it seems like while they aren't very overtly expressive, they tend to go out of their way to offer advice, information, explanations, or other kinds of help with something. Even in situations where I wouldn't have bothered or thought it wasn't really my responsibility.
This, I think, may be a T/F thing. It actually gets me in trouble sometimes.

When I hear about a problem, the first thing I automatically do is try to solve it - I ask for more information and then suggest courses of action, or I highlight another perspective from which the problem could be viewed, etc. Sometimes this is fine, but sometimes I'm met with anger because they didn't want practical help, they just wanted sympathy and emotional support. Which I'm not great at giving, and which I tend to think is...not very useful...except in extreme cases (where the problem itself is their emotional state rather than anything that can be 'fixed' external to them).
 

Athenian200

Protocol Droid
Joined
Jul 1, 2007
Messages
8,828
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4w5
I have not read the whole thread, but:


I don't know what to say here. I don't know enough other INTs to have formed a generalised opinion about them, but I know I go out of my way to avoid being rude or mean to people. I'm opposed to causing harm, so I really don't want to hurt feelings. I phrase criticism constructively and never attack anything at a personal level.

That said, I don't go out of my way to be particularly nice very often. Helpful, yes, but not so much nice. It's more...neutral treatment, I guess. It could probably be interpreted as rude or cold, but it's really just me conserving energy while trying not to negatively impact people, getting on with my life and letting everyone else get on with theirs.

So, never intentionally rude or blunt, but not overly skilled in my attempts to nicen things up, and so probably come across as cold. Also inclined to think that if that's so, people can just deal with it, because I've done as much as I can.

Ah. So it seems like I'm having trouble separating a desire to help, and avoidence of rudeness, from being nice. Mostly because I consider myself nice for doing those things along with some others.

This, I think, may be a T/F thing. It actually gets me in trouble sometimes.

When I hear about a problem, the first thing I automatically do is try to solve it - I ask for more information and then suggest courses of action, or I highlight another perspective from which the problem could be viewed, etc. Sometimes this is fine, but sometimes I'm met with anger because they didn't want practical help, they just wanted sympathy and emotional support. Which I'm not great at giving, and which I tend to think is...not very useful...except in extreme cases (where the problem itself is their emotional state rather than anything that can be 'fixed' external to them).

This keeps coming up, but it always confounds me each time. It seems as though attempting to offer practical help implies some degree of concern with the person who has the problem (unless of course the person obviously just wants to test their skills)... I could understand seeing it as inappropriate or pointless, but to be angry? Getting angry about it seems self-centered and not attempting to acknowledge intent. Oh, well... that's a debate for another thread.

I like to offer whichever seems like it will be appreciated more, although sometimes I choose incorrectly, wasting sympathy on someone who doesn't want it, or offering practical help to someone who wanted sympathy. I bet I would make a terrible waiter, too.
 

Spamtar

Ghost Monkey Soul
Joined
Sep 1, 2009
Messages
4,468
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INTP
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5w4
Think some of the issues/conflicts of opinions as far as a generally accepted definition is mostly semantics. There appears to be some motivation on INTs and NTs in general wanting to articulate pragmatic reasons for their acts as opposed to being called "nice" which tends to imply a value judgment. Often I suspect NT thrive to find objective certainty and concrete criteria vs. subjective and value judgment generalizations.

Really think we are mostly saying the same things but a bit communication lost in translation between T and F (and to a lessor degree P and J).
 

musicheck

New member
Joined
Dec 7, 2008
Messages
61
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5
If you can comprehend the idea that "go die in a fire" can be said endearingly, you probably won't find INTx's particularly mean.
 

Thalassa

Permabanned
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May 3, 2009
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ISFP
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sx
Probably because they're rational, therefore being more emotionally balanced in their interactions with others, and less overbearing than extroverted NTs about flaunting their particular skill set.
 

wildcat

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Jun 8, 2007
Messages
3,622
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INTP
You know, it recently occurred to me that I've actually very rarely had an INTx say something rude or blunt to me. I mean, occasionally, yes, but not more often than Fs, who seem equally likely to lash out at me.

I tend to assume that they would be more willing to, but often they aren't.

What's more, it seems like while they aren't very overtly expressive, they tend to go out of their way to offer advice, information, explanations, or other kinds of help with something. Even in situations where I wouldn't have bothered or thought it wasn't really my responsibility.

In fact, much of their frustration with people seems to stem from their perception that people are "demanding too much" from them, when it's actually their own sense of obligation and helpfulness that makes them feel pressured to do all of these things.

Am I just imagining this, or am I onto something?
Guilt.

The INTs are into guilt.
The ESFs are into shame:
The authority figure decides when and to whom to be nice.

Guilt < Field independence.
Shame < Field dependence.

Shame is about what the other people think about you.
Guilt is about what you think about yourself.

Most people are into shame. The authority figure is outside of the house.
Few people are into guilt. The authority figure is inside of the house.

Niceness is inborn.
 

Fluffywolf

Nips away your dignity
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Mar 31, 2009
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9
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sp/sx
Guilt.

The INTs are into guilt.
The ESFs are into shame:
The authority figure decides when and to whom to be nice.

Guilt < Field independence.
Shame < Field dependence.

Shame is about what the other people think about you.
Guilt is about what you think about yourself.

Most people are into shame. The authority figure is outside of the house.
Few people are into guilt. The authority figure is inside of the house.

Niceness is inborn.

Brr, dislike your choice of wording. :p

I'd prefer to say it like this.

The INTs are not into guilt, and thus do everything in their power to prevent it.
 

Xander

Lex Parsimoniae
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
4,463
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
9w8
Conceptually, for INTP's, that an inferior Fe for you, coupled with a potentially weak personal ego. The ego is not tuned into what it desires (from a feelings perspective), it can only determine what it should 'rationally want'; hence, it can't stand up for itself in matters involving personal preference or desire; hence, when someone else requests something, the INTP has a lot of trouble saying 'no' outright, especially because saying 'no' might create bad will and later conflict that will impose on one's freedom even moreso. So it's easier to comply, but it's not done willingly.

I remember so many times not wanting to do what someone wanted but feeling like I had "no rational reason" to say no, so now I had no choice... but i was resentful over it because I tried very hard not to request anything from others and I felt like they were being unfair. It was easier just to stay away from people.
Ayee carumba! Errm I think I've just found my eureka moment for the week.

This makes sense as to why I find Ts are more diplomatic in general than Fs. Okay so this is comparing NFs to NTs but I figure it should carry over to STs and SFs to some degree. The concept that Ts require a reason to disrupt the flow makes a whole lot of sense.

Oh yeah and that quote.... I'd just like to put my hand up and then go and sit quietly in the corner looking guilty... must figure that one out one day...

"No."

"NO!"

See I can type it... honest....

Re Athenian200,
I think you might find you prefer INT style responses because they are dealing more with possibilities, they're stated in a less than definite fashion so mostly it's suggestions. That's a whole lot easier to absorb and consider than a seeming instruction or crusade.
 

Blank

.
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
1,201
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w6
You know, it recently occurred to me that I've actually very rarely had an INTx say something rude or blunt to me. I mean, occasionally, yes, but not more often than Fs, who seem equally likely to lash out at me.

I tend to assume that they would be more willing to, but often they aren't.

What's more, it seems like while they aren't very overtly expressive, they tend to go out of their way to offer advice, information, explanations, or other kinds of help with something. Even in situations where I wouldn't have bothered or thought it wasn't really my responsibility.

In fact, much of their frustration with people seems to stem from their perception that people are "demanding too much" from them, when it's actually their own sense of obligation and helpfulness that makes them feel pressured to do all of these things.

Am I just imagining this, or am I onto something?

That's about the opposite of what I am.

I'm rude, I'm blunt, and I'm simple. I don't really like to offer help because I hate feelings of obligation, but when I do, I'm honest and helpful. I tend to be more critical and less likely to praise, but that's because I give praise when I'm actually surprised/impressed by something and critical when something needs fixing.

I'm also mega-stubborn, and if I set my mind to not doing something, it's not going to get done. If someone wants help from me, and it's something I'm not interested in helping them in, they'll know about it for sure. :p
 

LostInNerSpace

New member
Joined
Jan 25, 2008
Messages
1,027
MBTI Type
INTP
I can come up with new ideas the same way a comedian never runs out of material for jokes. It's no different. Humor and creativity are closely related. Just takes a lot of work. The more work, the better the ideas. The ideas are even better from a team of people to working together.

What I can't figure out is if you are asking because you really want ideas is it just another silly game.

Let's say for argument sake you really want ideas. I'm not in a position to come up with anything meaningful because I'm tied up trying to earn a living. Smart people hire people who have what they want.

Show me a successful comedian who doesn't work hard, doesn't have a team of people, or both.
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
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sx/sp
Brr, dislike your choice of wording. :p

I'd prefer to say it like this.

The INTs are not into guilt, and thus do everything in their power to prevent it.

I'm proud of myself -- growing up, I indulged in both of these [guilt and shame] equally well. :doh:

Nowadays, I let few people shame me (if any -- usually I recognize it up front and set the feelings aside if any appear), and I got over feeling guilt burdens a few years back. If you live according to your sensibilities and conscience and have a healthy self-image, then there's nothing really to be ashamed or guilty about; you do what you know you should do and need to do, and you do not do what you know you should not do or can't do, and in the meanwhile, when you're inconsistent with your self-image, you apologize to yourself and others, fix the problem, and move ahead.

You only suffer guilt when you do things you don't believe you should do (or don't do things you think you should); and you only suffer shame when you let others determine what you should be rather than being who you are.

This shame/guilt thing seems like a coarse Level 1 tool towards self-improvement, for those who don't easily like to take responsibility for their choices.
 

kelric

Feline Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2007
Messages
2,169
MBTI Type
INtP
Conceptually, for INTP's, that an inferior Fe for you, coupled with a potentially weak personal ego. The ego is not tuned into what it desires (from a feelings perspective), it can only determine what it should 'rationally want'; hence, it can't stand up for itself in matters involving personal preference or desire; hence, when someone else requests something, the INTP has a lot of trouble saying 'no' outright, especially because saying 'no' might create bad will and later conflict that will impose on one's freedom even moreso. So it's easier to comply, but it's not done willingly.

I remember so many times not wanting to do what someone wanted but feeling like I had "no rational reason" to say no, so now I had no choice... but i was resentful over it because I tried very hard not to request anything from others and I felt like they were being unfair. It was easier just to stay away from people.

This is very true for me, as well. Most of the time, I don't have a strong opinion on whatever matters may be at hand. I definitely dislike bad will and conflict, and often see that as either not worth the effort to press, or that the conflict would be worse -- if it's not something I have an objectively unfalsifiable, easily communicated reason to say no, I'll often play along. But like Jennifer says -- it's easy to get into the position of feeling like others are being unfair and taking advantage. Sometimes it is easier to simply disengage.

I do have my buttons that can be pushed, though. Currently this takes form primarily at work -- where I *can't* disengage. In that, I'll either a) do things as I think they should be done (when I can get away with it) or b) get frustrated and upset. In interacting with others, I'll a) do just fine if I believe that I'm respected and not being taken advantage of or b) grumble, get frustrated and upset.
 

Little Linguist

Striving for balance
Joined
Jun 23, 2008
Messages
6,880
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xNFP
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sx/so
If you are mean, you burn bridges, which limits possibilities?

This would bother INTJs, who see the big picture and plan a great deal (strategy).

This would bother INTPs, who avoid closure, and prefer to keep possibilities open?

Just an idea I'm throwing out there; I could be way off base.

I apologize if someone said this before.
 
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