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  1. #41
    Member Gothmawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spamtar View Post
    INTP (such as myself) can be "full of ourselves" both here and irl,
    however, when, particularly when a F "pulls us into their world", the F can dominate (at least temporarily) and if done right even be greatly appreciated by the INT.
    I agree. I have seen an INT turn to total goo right in my hands.

  2. #42
    No Cigar Litvyak's Avatar
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    I think most people are wrong by thinking we always stick to the 'logical' way of problem solving - at least I definitely don't. I'm not sure about INTPs, but INTJs are actually less rational than they seem to be. It's good to avoid unnecessary fighting and some things needn't (and shouldn't) always be openly judged, but losing an argument for the sake of possible (social) benefits sounds really... cheap to me. I'd feel like a loser. I know it could be advantageous, but I still couldn't force myself to do it.

    This is only a side note, and possibly only my own flaw.

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  4. #44
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Litvyak View Post
    It's good to avoid unnecessary fighting and some things needn't (and shouldn't) always be openly judged, but losing an argument for the sake of possible (social) benefits sounds really... cheap to me. I'd feel like a loser. I know it could be advantageous, but I still couldn't force myself to do it.

    This is only a side note, and possibly only my own flaw.
    Perhaps if you considered it a strategic retreat.

    PS. Winged what happened to your post? you brought up some great points. One of them paraphrased is that especially irl, was that often presentation is more strategic element to winning or achieving interpersonal harmony.
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Spamtar - a strange combination of boorish drunkeness and erudite discussions, or what I call "an Irish academic"

  5. #45
    Self sustaining supernova Zoom's Avatar
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    I have an odd bit about posting in threads that are very well into the discussion - oftentimes it seems like people aren't really listening, and I am unsure as to how pertinent my points are, at times. However, I'll try to reiterate.

    Others' ears oftentimes close when ye're rude to them, and presentation of data can be as important as the information itself when it comes to interpersonal communications.

    I will not strike out verbally in anger - it would go against one of my few and primary tenets. As overwhelming and fiery as emotions can be, ye cannot take back vitriolic words and being accurate the first time is truly important.

    Knowledge of something new (including people) can never be assumed on my part, so I always ask. The quietly unassuming, non-judgemental nature of my curiosity comes off as extremely polite from what I've heard. For some reason people seem to believe that one cannot think negative or angry thoughts whilst having an entirely neutral expression.

  6. #46
    Senior Member Two Point Two's Avatar
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    I have not read the whole thread, but:

    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    You know, it recently occurred to me that I've actually very rarely had an INTx say something rude or blunt to me. I mean, occasionally, yes, but not more often than Fs, who seem equally likely to lash out at me.

    I tend to assume that they would be more willing to, but often they aren't.
    I don't know what to say here. I don't know enough other INTs to have formed a generalised opinion about them, but I know I go out of my way to avoid being rude or mean to people. I'm opposed to causing harm, so I really don't want to hurt feelings. I phrase criticism constructively and never attack anything at a personal level.

    That said, I don't go out of my way to be particularly nice very often. Helpful, yes, but not so much nice. It's more...neutral treatment, I guess. It could probably be interpreted as rude or cold, but it's really just me conserving energy while trying not to negatively impact people, getting on with my life and letting everyone else get on with theirs.

    So, never intentionally rude or blunt, but not overly skilled in my attempts to nicen things up, and so probably come across as cold. Also inclined to think that if that's so, people can just deal with it, because I've done as much as I can.

    What's more, it seems like while they aren't very overtly expressive, they tend to go out of their way to offer advice, information, explanations, or other kinds of help with something. Even in situations where I wouldn't have bothered or thought it wasn't really my responsibility.
    This, I think, may be a T/F thing. It actually gets me in trouble sometimes.

    When I hear about a problem, the first thing I automatically do is try to solve it - I ask for more information and then suggest courses of action, or I highlight another perspective from which the problem could be viewed, etc. Sometimes this is fine, but sometimes I'm met with anger because they didn't want practical help, they just wanted sympathy and emotional support. Which I'm not great at giving, and which I tend to think is...not very useful...except in extreme cases (where the problem itself is their emotional state rather than anything that can be 'fixed' external to them).

  7. #47
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Two Point Two View Post
    I have not read the whole thread, but:


    I don't know what to say here. I don't know enough other INTs to have formed a generalised opinion about them, but I know I go out of my way to avoid being rude or mean to people. I'm opposed to causing harm, so I really don't want to hurt feelings. I phrase criticism constructively and never attack anything at a personal level.

    That said, I don't go out of my way to be particularly nice very often. Helpful, yes, but not so much nice. It's more...neutral treatment, I guess. It could probably be interpreted as rude or cold, but it's really just me conserving energy while trying not to negatively impact people, getting on with my life and letting everyone else get on with theirs.

    So, never intentionally rude or blunt, but not overly skilled in my attempts to nicen things up, and so probably come across as cold. Also inclined to think that if that's so, people can just deal with it, because I've done as much as I can.
    Ah. So it seems like I'm having trouble separating a desire to help, and avoidence of rudeness, from being nice. Mostly because I consider myself nice for doing those things along with some others.

    This, I think, may be a T/F thing. It actually gets me in trouble sometimes.

    When I hear about a problem, the first thing I automatically do is try to solve it - I ask for more information and then suggest courses of action, or I highlight another perspective from which the problem could be viewed, etc. Sometimes this is fine, but sometimes I'm met with anger because they didn't want practical help, they just wanted sympathy and emotional support. Which I'm not great at giving, and which I tend to think is...not very useful...except in extreme cases (where the problem itself is their emotional state rather than anything that can be 'fixed' external to them).
    This keeps coming up, but it always confounds me each time. It seems as though attempting to offer practical help implies some degree of concern with the person who has the problem (unless of course the person obviously just wants to test their skills)... I could understand seeing it as inappropriate or pointless, but to be angry? Getting angry about it seems self-centered and not attempting to acknowledge intent. Oh, well... that's a debate for another thread.

    I like to offer whichever seems like it will be appreciated more, although sometimes I choose incorrectly, wasting sympathy on someone who doesn't want it, or offering practical help to someone who wanted sympathy. I bet I would make a terrible waiter, too.

  8. #48
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    Think some of the issues/conflicts of opinions as far as a generally accepted definition is mostly semantics. There appears to be some motivation on INTs and NTs in general wanting to articulate pragmatic reasons for their acts as opposed to being called "nice" which tends to imply a value judgment. Often I suspect NT thrive to find objective certainty and concrete criteria vs. subjective and value judgment generalizations.

    Really think we are mostly saying the same things but a bit communication lost in translation between T and F (and to a lessor degree P and J).
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Spamtar - a strange combination of boorish drunkeness and erudite discussions, or what I call "an Irish academic"

  9. #49
    Une Femme est une femme paperoceans's Avatar
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    I guess you never met me.
    Between that cigarillo and sticking my finger down my throat to see if I could DT, I feel like puking RN.

    Read my Blog.

  10. #50
    Tier 1 Member LunaLuminosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 93JC View Post
    There's no good reason to be mean.


    For me, it is as simple as this.

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