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  1. #31
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    We normally tend to assume NTs are cold and blunt, while NFs are warm and nice. But in reality, there are emotional motivations to act in a cold and blunt manner, and logical motivations to behave in a nice and warm manner. So you really have to look at the unconscious tendencies and the relationship between contexts rather than the overt behavior, because the overt behavior isn't necessarily as meaningful as you'd think.
    This is one of the best statements I've read. So true.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  2. #32
    videodrones; questions Verfremdungseffekt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    What I wonder is: Why am I being nice to her at all, when my actual feeling is one of being pissed off and rather disgusted? I guess it's because when I dig deeper, my feelings are attached to her behavior, not necessarily to her personally, if she stopped what she was doing I'd be okay with her; but I know if I'm cruel, it'll be attacking her and not her behavior.
    I keep finding myself in these situations. For a number of years I've been part of a sort of online social group, mostly people from one forum who have since drifted here and there. There's one person who got tacked onto the group a while back, whose behavior often strikes me as very unpleasant.

    If she would just contain herself, I'd have no problem with her. I've no real opinion of her as a person; just of her behavior. If I do avoid her, it's more a statistical thing: what do I think the chances are that she'll behave herself today?

    That same impulse -- reluctance to judge, while a person's behavior keeps eating away at me in some way -- has tied me up in several unhealthy situations. And over time it does eat away at a person, without one really noticing. That's part of the reason I left that forum where I met these people; eventually I realized what it was doing to me, to keep hanging around.

  3. #33
    triple nerd score poppy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    You know, it recently occurred to me that I've actually very rarely had an INTx say something rude or blunt to me. I mean, occasionally, yes, but not more often than Fs, who seem equally likely to lash out at me.

    I tend to assume that they would be more willing to, but often they aren't.

    What's more, it seems like while they aren't very overtly expressive, they tend to go out of their way to offer advice, information, explanations, or other kinds of help with something. Even in situations where I wouldn't have bothered or thought it wasn't really my responsibility.

    In fact, much of their frustration with people seems to stem from their perception that people are "demanding too much" from them, when it's actually their own sense of obligation and helpfulness that makes them feel pressured to do all of these things.

    Am I just imagining this, or am I onto something?
    Awww, I think you kinda got it. Always makes me happy when someone is willing to meet me half way by understanding that my (/our) feedback (or criticism as some call it) stems from good intentions. Then again I've also learned that people expect a certain degree of empathy and acceptance, which I'm willing to offer if I like ya.

    Disclaimer: If I don't particularly like a person, all criticism and feedback is done from a purely compulsive need to correct things, and has neutral rather than "nice" roots. And yes, there's a lot of truth to the "it's easier to get things done that way" shtick.
    "There's no need to be embarrassed about it, Mr. Spock. It happens to the birds and the bees!"

  4. #34
    respect the brick C.J.Woolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    You know, it recently occurred to me that I've actually very rarely had an INTx say something rude or blunt to me. I mean, occasionally, yes, but not more often than Fs, who seem equally likely to lash out at me.
    ...

    Am I just imagining this, or am I onto something?
    I suspect they really like you, and they are on their best behavior with you. INTP Central is an INTP-INFJ mutual admiration society.

    Quote Originally Posted by Soar337 View Post
    INTPs are rude inside their heads
    HA! Yes. Two of my favorite coworkers were witty assholes who could take it as well as dish it out. I could say to them what I wouldn't say to anyone else. It was a verbal free-fire zone with them.

  5. #35
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    This is one of the best statements I've read. So true.
    Ditto. And also the reason why most people irl would type me as a T and sometimes even call me cold (but that's probably due to my dry and mean-ish sense of humor ). Also why I type as enneagram type 8.

    But I'd like to add that the important thing is to not always take the meaning of overt behavior at face value. That's why I'm so untrusting of Fe sometimes. Sugarcoated niceties... And also why I have no problem with arrogant and rude bastards.

  6. #36
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    I say we appreciate being appreciated but when it comes down to it its usually that we just simply rather not be bothered.

    Most arguments, at least irl are strictly vanity. I don't know about INTJs but INTPs see what the outcome of the argument will be often before the argument has begun...most often the gains are intangible or minimal...so why bother...most arguments, especially with Fs or SJs are relatively pyrrhic.

    Winning every argument/most has its downsides. People who you beat will begin to resent you, they will retaliate, directly or with passive aggression. Pragmatically avoiding the argument in the first place is most often the superior strategy to showing adverse opponent you are right, right?

    If nothing else if you have to win the argument, a learned INTP will usually allow his/her opponent some degree of face saving (although deep down we are tempted to spike the ball).
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Spamtar - a strange combination of boorish drunkeness and erudite discussions, or what I call "an Irish academic"

  7. #37
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poppy View Post
    Awww, I think you kinda got it. Always makes me happy when someone is willing to meet me half way by understanding that my (/our) feedback (or criticism as some call it) stems from good intentions. Then again I've also learned that people expect a certain degree of empathy and acceptance, which I'm willing to offer if I like ya.

    Disclaimer: If I don't particularly like a person, all criticism and feedback is done from a purely compulsive need to correct things, and has neutral rather than "nice" roots. And yes, there's a lot of truth to the "it's easier to get things done that way" shtick.
    Yeah, I kind of thought it was different with INTJs. They're not so good at faking it.

    I think a lot of INTJs do have good intentions. I mean, they act blunt and reserved, but they're usually just very protective of their inner selves. Even if they don't, they're often internally driven by some kind of ideal or intense desire.

    Quote Originally Posted by C.J.Woolf View Post
    I suspect they really like you, are they are on their best behavior with you. INTP Central is an INTP-INFJ mutual admiration society.
    Yeah, come to think of it, that's not surprising.

    I sometimes am so acutely aware of how NTs feel about stupidity that I overcompensate and analyze very carefully. So it probably goes a little bit the other way as well, because I tend to adjust my interpretations (a bit like switching codepages or language encodings) based on the values of the group or the individual. I know they value logic, so I act logical... and it works, especially on INTPs.

    INTJs generally seem to value integrity, curiousity, passion, and acheivement as much as pure logic, though, so it's not as easy to impress them.

  8. #38
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    To be honest being rude is often inefficient way of doing thiings and ilogical as such.
    While logic is pretty much only thing we as group have.
    What means that to be rude we are going against our nature. Especially since we have a problem making a social connections. What again means that loosing a friend will require alot of effort if that friend is to be replaced.


    However when we are rude it is something you will not miss.
    I will use myself as an example here: I am so calculated that I don't even open my mouth before I think things through. (always)


    So if I am rude I am rude on purpose. What is something I do from time to time if I want to kill the communication I am not interested in. (aka chit chat)
    Usually I am doing this with intention to hurt another person just so that I am sure that this person will not want to speak with me soon. (what is exacly my goal)
    I know that it is insensitive but this is usually the only way to get out of certain coversations.
    But sometimes I do something "bad" just for fun. (like use of sarcasm)

  9. #39
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    Would also add real quick, at least with me I tend to be quite a bit more reserved irl then here, to a point where one could find its kinda unhealthy. So this equations should be factored in.

    Also more blunt here both for the sake of brevity and the limited consequences of standard protocol.

    INTP (such as myself) can be "full of ourselves" both here and irl,
    however, when, particularly when a F "pulls us into their world", the F can dominate (at least temporarily) and if done right even be greatly appreciated by the INT.
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Spamtar - a strange combination of boorish drunkeness and erudite discussions, or what I call "an Irish academic"

  10. #40
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Something I just mentioned in a different thread:

    Even when I'm annoyed or frustrated, I might not be 100% sure I'm right.
    Even 95% isn't necessarily good enough.

    So I usually maintain as even a keel as I can until I'm really sure I have grounds to take strong action. I don't want to take such a strong response until I'm really really sure I will not regret it later and interpreted the other person's behavior view appropriately.

    Acting spontaneously out of a strong emotion is just not something INTPs generally like to do. It conflicts with the need for intellectual coherence and not making mistakes that later will have to be corrected, which emotions are prone to lead to.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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