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  1. #21
    Senior Member avolkiteshvara's Avatar
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    Nice..........huh?


    NICE!

  2. #22
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Ooh, I'm so scared. Not!
    Good. You won't try to escape, then.

    Remind me never to get anywhere near an INTx with a gun... hehe.
    A gun would be less painful. Usually it's just an unexpected carefully placed sniper shot right to the heart of one's ego.

    Here's a fun anecdote: I was just choking back one of these shots to someone on another forum, where I am explicitly not a mod. She never STFU, and she is cluttering the forum up with her own inane questions because she's insecure and likes to hear herself talk. She creates threads asking the stupidest questions that either have no answer or that she could answer on her own, but it's pretty clear she just likes to hear herself talk and have people affirm her by replying. UGH.

    I've been patient for a few months but I sense I'm pretty close to just plugging her and taking the consequences; I just do not suffer fools like that forever. What's funny is that I let her friend me on FB over the summer but kicked her out of my newsfeed a few weeks ago because I was sick of her drivel there too.

    What I wonder is: Why am I being nice to her at all, when my actual feeling is one of being pissed off and rather disgusted? I guess it's because when I dig deeper, my feelings are attached to her behavior, not necessarily to her personally, if she stopped what she was doing I'd be okay with her; but I know if I'm cruel, it'll be attacking her and not her behavior. So I try to influence her behavior rather than trashing her. I don't know.

    I still very much want to go back and plug her, though.
    She could use a good wakeup call.
    Maybe I should just write to her... but I don't feel like making the time investment. It's almost easier to ignore... except she never goes away.

    Hmm... maybe they're nice to me because they fear my wrath? LOL.
    The Wrath of Athenian200?
    Ouch.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #23
    No Cigar Litvyak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    One shouldnt forget tho that rudeness can have different faces

    NTPs try to be funny, NTJs go for the kill.

  4. #24
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    A gun would be less painful. Usually it's just an unexpected carefully placed sniper shot right to the heart of one's ego.

    Here's a fun anecdote: I was just choking back one of these shots to someone on another forum, where I am explicitly not a mod. She never STFU, and she is cluttering the forum up with her own inane questions because she's insecure and likes to hear herself talk. She creates threads asking the stupidest questions that either have no answer or that she could answer on her own, but it's pretty clear she just likes to hear herself talk and have people affirm her by replying. UGH.

    I've been patient for a few months but I sense I'm pretty close to just plugging her and taking the consequences; I just do not suffer fools like that forever. What's funny is that I let her friend me on FB over the summer but kicked her out of my newsfeed a few weeks ago because I was sick of her drivel there too.

    What I wonder is: Why am I being nice to her at all, when my actual feeling is one of being pissed off and rather disgusted? I guess it's because when I dig deeper, my feelings are attached to her behavior, not necessarily to her personally, if she stopped what she was doing I'd be okay with her; but I know if I'm cruel, it'll be attacking her and not her behavior. So I try to influence her behavior rather than trashing her. I don't know.

    I still very much want to go back and plug her, though.
    She could use a good wakeup call.
    Maybe I should just write to her... but I don't feel like making the time investment. It's almost easier to ignore... except she never goes away.
    Hmm...

    Well, I think you should ask yourself why this bothers you so much. I think it bothers you because you see what she's doing as logically irrelevent, but fail to see the emotional relevence the affirmation may have for her. She is insecure, and wants attention.

    There's actually nothing inherently wrong with this... it's actually very common for insecure people to seek affirmation outside themselves, especially Extraverts. It's not necessarily unhealthy, though I can understand how so much pointless conversation would annoy an NT eventually.

    So, another dimension I'd ask you to consider is... does this behavior annoy you because there's something inherently wrong with it, or because you don't personally see in merit in it within your own worldview?

    If I were in your situation, I would likely have just placed the person on my ignore list and terminated my friendship with them, blocked all communication. If someone's getting on your nerves that much, and you don't value them enough to invest in explaining your position, they shouldn't be a part of your life. On the other hand, I know that can be hard to do when other people are quoting them, talking about them, etc.

    Aside from that, however... that is a good illustration of the conflict an INTP could face with being nice while wanting to critique. You're aware that you can't criticize them without making it personal, because your problem with them is partially personal, though you are more concerned with the logical side of it.

    Excellent anecdote.
    The Wrath of Athenian200?
    Ouch.
    Yeah. See, in all honesty, you really shouldn't push ANYONE too far. Everyone has a dark side that can come out when you do. INTs are no worse when pushed too far than any other type.

    Besides... if an INT can do that to someone's ego, what do you think an INFJ could do using their normal sensitivity and awareness to wreck/torture instead of help could do?

  5. #25
    WTF is this dude saying? A Schnitzel's Avatar
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    I usually just cut the conversation short if I don't want to talk. Much less work than being blatantly rude and it accomplishes the same thing from my perspective. Or if it's a text/internet conversation I'll probably forget to respond.
    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    sheesh humans! for realz

  6. #26
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    There does seem to be a range of responses to INT based in part on how their communication style is interpreted. The more direct, rational approach can offend some people unnecessarily. They can misread intent.

    The three INTs I've been closest to irl are about the three nicest, most thoughtful, and caring people I have ever encountered in the world. The same seems true for many online.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  7. #27
    Senior Member Grace's Avatar
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    I love INTs but I must admit that when I read the title of this tread I went...

    The INTs I know happen to be INTPs and they are great people who are smart and interesting, etc. But nice? I dont' know. I dont' think they're mean but nice?

  8. #28
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Well, I think you should ask yourself why this bothers you so much. I think it bothers you because you see what she's doing as logically irrelevent, but fail to see the emotional relevence the affirmation may have for her. She is insecure, and wants attention.

    There's actually nothing inherently wrong with this... it's actually very common for insecure people to seek affirmation outside themselves, especially Extraverts. It's not necessarily unhealthy, though I can understand how so much pointless conversation would annoy an NT eventually.

    So, another dimension I'd ask you to consider is... does this behavior annoy you because there's something inherently wrong with it, or because you don't personally see in merit in it within your own worldview?
    I see it as bad for her (because she's 30 and is acting like a 15 year old, with no sign of improvement), she's in the middle of a big life change that she's going to fail at if she does not get over this sort of thing... and because she's annoying other people, not just me, with her behavior.

    I'm pretty live-and-let-live outside of a community setting, but inside one, I expect people to think about how others are impacted by their behavior and regulate themselves rather than having to have other people intervene and set them straight all the time. So there, my strong sense of autonomy and taking personal responsibility is driving my feelings; she's not being autonomous at her age level, nor is she considering how others feel about her behavior, and she's forcing others to clean up her mess if they want to resolve her issue.

    But no, it's not all about me.
    I think it's bad for her too.
    I just never signed up to be her mentor.

    If I were in your situation, I would likely have just placed the person on my ignore list and terminated my friendship with them, blocked all communication. If someone's getting on your nerves that much, and you don't value them enough to invest in explaining your position, they shouldn't be a part of your life. On the other hand, I know that can be hard to do when other people are quoting them, talking about them, etc.
    Whatever.
    That wasn't my point in bringing it up.

    Aside from that, however... that is a good illustration of the conflict an INTP could face with being nice while wanting to critique. You're aware that you can't criticize them without making it personal, because your problem with them is partially personal, though you are more concerned with the logical side of it. Excellent anecdote.
    Yeah, that was more my point in bringing it up.

    Yeah. See, in all honesty, you really shouldn't push ANYONE too far. Everyone has a dark side that can come out when you do. INTs are no worse when pushed too far than any other type.

    Besides... if an INT can do that to someone's ego, what do you think an INFJ could do using their normal sensitivity and awareness to wreck/torture instead of help could do?
    The thing is, Athenian, is that INT's usually have a natural defense/slough-off factor as part of the Detachment layer. It takes a lot to hit us in a way that will flip us out... and especially to make us momentarily lose control... and usually we'll leave before we'll let ourselves lose control around others.

    I'm not sure that is the case for some other types, the buttons are far too easy to push.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  9. #29
    (blankpages) Xenon's Avatar
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    Interesting topic. And I'm not just saying that to be nice.

    For me, I admit it's often a matter of being careful not to dish out what I can't take. I'm more insecure than I usually let on, and attacks on my intelligence sting more than anything else. I want people to think I'm smart and interesting and analytical and insightful, and to want to hear my ideas, but I'm often afraid they won't. Making sarcastic or rude comments to someone who says something dumb usually causes a counterattack, so I'm usually too much of a wuss to risk that.

    And I know that if you want to influence someone's thinking and get them to listen to your ideas, being an asshole usually causes the opposite reaction.

    The INTP profile here contains this paragraph:

    A major concern for INTPs is the haunting sense of impending failure. They spend considerable time second-guessing themselves. The open-endedness (from Perceiving) conjoined with the need for competence (NT) is expressed in a sense that one's conclusion may well be met by an equally plausible alternative solution, and that, after all, one may very well have overlooked some critical bit of data. An INTP arguing a point may very well be trying to convince himself as much as his opposition. In this way INTPs are markedly different from INTJs, who are much more confident in their competence and willing to act on their convictions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Come to think of it, if you're so sure you're more intelligent than everyone else, why do you care what stupid people think about your intelligence?
    The above wasn't directed at me, but in my case a major problem has always been that I value intelligence and I like to think of myself as bright, but I also have this underlying fear that maybe I'm not as smart as I think. And maybe, if I'm not intelligent, then I'm nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    And I know for me I see where people are coming from and try to make allowance for their way of thinking and why they might hold to a particular thought, out of fairness.
    I relate to this. Also, if I'm debating/discussing something with someone I sometimes see several possible meanings in what they're saying, and I want to either make sure I either respond to the right one or cover several possible interpretations in my response. I don't want to assume a certain meaning, turn out to be wrong and then have them correct me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Soar337 View Post
    INTPs are rude inside their heads
    Hells yeah. (Isn't everyone though?)

  10. #30
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grace View Post
    I love INTs but I must admit that when I read the title of this tread I went...

    The INTs I know happen to be INTPs and they are great people who are smart and interesting, etc. But nice? I dont' know. I dont' think they're mean but nice?
    Yeah. You see, I wanted to try messing with the assumptions. Usually we make the assumption that INTs aren't nice, but are more blunt. But I found many situations that make more sense starting with the assumption that they ARE nice.

    Surprisingly, it works well, because there are logical reasons to be nice, particularly on an abstract level. And I would say they're nicer than some other types I've met, for instance some STs.

    We normally tend to assume NTs are cold and blunt, while NFs are warm and nice. But in reality, there are emotional motivations to act in a cold and blunt manner, and logical motivations to behave in a nice and warm manner. So you really have to look at the unconscious tendencies and the relationship between contexts rather than the overt behavior, because the overt behavior isn't necessarily as meaningful as you'd think. Like an accent, it could just be learned.

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