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[INTP] INTP's and relationships

King sns

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I'm dating I would say my third INTP now.
I noticed that every time I meet one, they seem really cool, calm, and collected. Strong and not easily worked up.

I noticed once you start to become more emotionally involved, they are like emotional train wrecks all of a sudden. And i'm always thrown into the position of being the steady, reasonable one.

Clingy, whiney, untrusting at times. Extremely affectionate. Almost feminine. I don't get it. I usually think at that point maybe I mistyped them.

But I didn't. (One of them actually tested for a class.)

What is this all about, INTPs?
What do I do about it?
 
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Totenkindly

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I'll move it to the NT forum in a moment.

EDIT: Or, uh, Night will move it.
thanks dude! ;)



Anyhoo...!

I'm dating I would say my third INTP now.
I noticed that every time I meet one, they seem really cool, calm, and collected. Strong and not easily worked up.

I noticed once you start to become more emotionally involved, they are like emotional train wrecks all of a sudden. And i'm always thrown into the position of being the steady, reasonable one.

Clingy, whiney, untrusting at times. Extremely affectionate. Almost feminine. I don't get it. I usually think at that point maybe I mistyped them.

But I didn't. (One of them actually tested for a class.)

What is this all about, INTPs?
What do I do about it?

(Oops, crap, wrong place to put this thread. Mods can change it!)

You're probably dealing with INTPs without a lot of relational experience.

It's been mentioned before that the undeveloped feeling functions tend to be pure, simplistic, direct, sweet. Not a lot of nuance.

For the negatives, you can easily get clingy, whiny, and paranoid. This would be technically labeled the "Fe inferior" at work, but it's basically saying that because INTPs focus so much and have gotten so skilled at their rational detached thinking that once they get ATTACHED, they have no experience nor any idea what to do with all the triggered emotion.

So the positive emotion comes out purely and simply.
But so does the negative.

Ti coupled with Ne, if it is driven by feelings of abandonment and relational inexperience, can come up pretty neurotic in trying to draw conclusions from every little sign and piece of information that appears. ("Oh no, she did not answer the phone when I called this time -- but she always answers at this time -- is she dumping me, cheating on me, does she hate me? Augh!") INTP naturally tries to unpack information from a single piece of data; it has a rational framework to do this with impersonal (aka scientific or rational) info but it usually has little experience or intuitive understanding of RELATIONAL info.

For example, you might just make assumptions about your bf because he is your bf, and you think your commitment is obvious -- in relationships people just assume the other person loves them, or thinks they're important to them, etc -- but INTPs by nature avoid assumptions, so sometimes they look for data to prove things to themselves that other people assume naturally. hence, they can seem more paranoid and demanding of unnecessary information in order to trust, if they start to have doubts. (INTPs usually have doubts about many things, all conclusions are open to challenge. Relationships are not rationally derived, they're more of personal commitments; hence the rational process doesn't work so well, and they are helpless until they get relational experience.)
 

cafe

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I think INTPs can fall pretty hard when they fall. Once the initial infatuation phase has passed, they revert to their calm, cool self to some degree, but if you do not like their gooshy side (which IMO, is a great honor to be allowed access to) probably it is better to date another type.
 

MonkeyGrass

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It's been mentioned before that the undeveloped feeling functions tend to be pure, simplistic, direct, sweet. Not a lot of nuance.

This is right on the money. :yes: Underdeveloped feeling can be almost embarrassingly sweet, especially when it shows up in a person who usually doesn't self express that way.
 

King sns

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I think INTPs can fall pretty hard when they fall. Once the initial infatuation phase has passed, they revert to their calm, cool self to some degree, but if you do not like their gooshy side (which IMO, is a great honor to be allowed access to) probably it is better to date another type.

The one I dated for 3-4 years on and off.
(have been friends for probably 7 all together.) Never. calmed. down.

The other one, about a year and a half, (haven't talked since) never really calmed down either, led to the demise of the relationship.

I do love all the affection and attention from someone supposedly so "cool." I like their nature..

I just wish there was a way that I could make them feel more secure.
 

Spamtar

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When are Fe starts to spiral it can be pretty chaotic. Experience helps. But when it comes to emotions a little hand holding guidance will often get them back on course. Often the Fe outward emotions are emotions which you have inspired which the INTP is trying to harmonize.
I have only recently become more comfortable with my emotions and even so...
Basically INTPs can be a pain in the neck (and occasionally adorable/poetic) when it comes to their getting a grip on new powerful feelings (like raw nerves). Yet if you put up with some of the nonsense in this areas (other areas less tolerance is prolly a good idea) they will be grateful and payback accordingly.

Edit: If they don't return equity or its more than you can handle then maybe its time to find another.
 

cafe

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The one I dated for 3-4 years on and off.
(have been friends for probably 7 all together.) Never. calmed. down.

The other one, about a year and a half, (haven't talked since) never really calmed down either, led to the demise of the relationship.

I do love all the affection and attention from someone supposedly so "cool." I like their nature..

I just wish there was a way that I could make them feel more secure.
Weird. I don't know. Most of my experience is with one and he calmed down about six to twelve months into it. For about ten to twelve years he was almost too distant and for the last . . . three to four years he's been just about comfortable for me.

Maybe it's the 'official' commitment (engagement, marriage, responsibility, etc) that actually makes them feel secure (trapped? lol) enough to cool off a bit, I dunno.

One thing I've noticed is that when he gets thrown off he doesn't recover as quickly as I do and he gets much more upset than I would about things that seem trivial to me, but he does calm down.
 

King sns

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Well this one in particular,
says, "I don't want to commit" (meaning he doesn't want to put a title on us.)

So I didn't take it personally, (well, I lied, I did take it personally but understood) and said, "okay, lets just be friends." assuming he just doesn't like me all that much and it was all fine. I assume people are telling me the truth when they say things like that.

Ever since then, he will not leave me alone, he "REALLY likes me", he wants to spend all ths time with me, he will not leave my side, won't stop calling, needs a hug every time I see him, wants to go on dates. Says he wishes we could be snuggly and kissey but is "afraid of committment" (I won't let him touch me. I don't want to get involved with something confusing.) My roommate who is his best friend says he gets really weird when he starts to care about someone. He gets like scared or something.

He's the most difficult "case" i've had. Haha.
I told him that it was fine, i'm not upset about it.
There was literally no pressure or drama from my end.

Either we're friends, or we're together.
If he's so emotional about this, I don't see what the harm is in having a relationship. But, to each his own I spose. I finally just told him to shut up about it, the drama was getting on my nerves, and that we can just be simple friends who can date other people unless there's further notice.

He was pretty chill and cool before all this.
 

Spamtar

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"Either we're friends, or we're together."

INTPs like myself would agree we want the best of both worlds to be physically intimate with you without the constrictions of a relationship. Makes perfect sense to me.

You may say WTF? But when he commits, if he chooses, he will likely be more loyal than others who are quick to commit and then go on serial monogamy “dating” sprees.
 

Totenkindly

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I will say that I experience a strong push/pull in my relationships, and it's a matter of commitment.

I can feel a lot of emotion towards someone and want to engage them / be with them, while at the same time I really don't like to be locked into a particular outcome. (INTPs are open-ended: You must analyze all new information and if the new information changes the situation, then you must go with it... but relationships set an answer ahead of time and you're supposed to commit to it even if things change some.) So commitment is pretty scary, especially if built on EMOTION rather than logic. But many relationships like this are driven at first by emotion, not logic. Emotion changes and seems very unstable to INTPs, it can't be trusted for decision-making... but when you're in love the emotions are SO strong they are hard to reject.

So I'm saying he sounds like a relationally young INTP who is really enamoured with you but is terrified to commit. Eventually he'll get a better grasp of what his emotions mean long-term, what feelings he can trust and what he can't, and when it's time to make a commitment in order to reap the real benefits of a relationship... since most people need some sort of commitment in order to invest.
 

Spamtar

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^ Yeah the terror part of the commitment dynamics/boundaries/rules which the OP is mandating prolly throws off his Fe even more.
 

MonkeyGrass

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I think it's good to realize that within types, people are also individuals, and have their own hangups. The commitment thing could be a product of his personality, or something else entirely.

In college, my then-boyfriend INTJ was absolutely head over heels and gushing emotion everywhere, and got a little overwhelmed by his own breakneck pace. He started insisting that we no longer say "I love you", and that it was moving too fast, while simultaneously plucking out all the flowers from the school's flower bed and bringing them to me every time he saw me. :doh:

Be straightforward. Something like, "You're the kind of person I'd like to have a relationship with. It seems like you like me, too. Before I feel good about hanging out as much as you want to, it'd be encouraging to hear that you see potential there, too, so I know I'm not just being played. If your intentions are good, then I'd love to keep the ball rolling and see what happens."

That's nice and safe and informative, doesn't press for actual commitment, doesn't pull his emotional drawers down too much, and gives him a chance to safely take a baby step forward.

(Take that, of course with a grain of salt or the whole margarita)
 

King sns

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I will say that I experience a strong push/pull in my relationships, and it's a matter of commitment.

I can feel a lot of emotion towards someone and want to engage them / be with them, while at the same time I really don't like to be locked into a particular outcome. (INTPs are open-ended: You must analyze all new information and if the new information changes the situation, then you must go with it... but relationships set an answer ahead of time and you're supposed to commit to it even if things change some.) So commitment is pretty scary, especially if built on EMOTION rather than logic. But many relationships like this are driven at first by emotion, not logic. Emotion changes and seems very unstable to INTPs, it can't be trusted for decision-making... but when you're in love the emotions are SO strong they are hard to reject.

So I'm saying he sounds like a relationally young INTP who is really enamoured with you but is terrified to commit. Eventually he'll get a better grasp of what his emotions mean long-term, what feelings he can trust and what he can't, and when it's time to make a commitment in order to reap the real benefits of a relationship... since most people need some sort of commitment in order to invest.

Thanks!! that's helpful :)



"Either we're friends, or we're together."

INTPs like myself would agree we want the best of both worlds to be physically intimate with you without the constrictions of a relationship. Makes perfect sense to me.

You may say WTF? But when he commits, if he chooses, he will likely be more loyal than others who are quick to commit and then go on serial monogamy “dating” sprees.

Yea, men in general like the best of both worlds ;) haha.


^ Yeah the terror part of the commitment dynamics/boundaries/rules which the OP is mandating prolly throws off his Fe even more.

I don't know about rules. I just told him that since we already act like we're in a relationship and I don't want to set myself up to get too attached and hurt by someone who doesn't want to commit. I'm not trying to crack the whip too much. So, I just refrain from things that I think are going to make me too attached, IE. Cuddling/kissing/discussion about how we feel about one another.I just don't see the point of that. I'm not trying to "cut him off to get my way" but I need to preserve my own emotions too. But yea, boundaries for sure.
I can see why he's scared.

But again. I'm not trying to force him into anything. And I told him that. I just want to protect myself from focusing too much on someone who has no actual attachment to me beyond friendship.
 

Spamtar

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Really from what you say I think you want similar things often with INTPs its the labeling which throws them off.

For example: MonkeyGrass's reframing technique is excellent and should go down just well with an INTP as well as her INTJ.
 

King sns

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Be straightforward. Something like, "You're the kind of person I'd like to have a relationship with. It seems like you like me, too. Before I feel good about hanging out as much as you want to, it'd be encouraging to hear that you see potential there, too, so I know I'm not just being played. If your intentions are good, then I'd love to keep the ball rolling and see what happens."


YES. That is exactly about what i've been telling him. I said something kind of like-
"I do like you very much. I just don't want to get hurt by having all this relationshippey stuff going on without any commitment on your part. I'm not in a big hurry just to be in a relationship, so I probably won't be dating anyone else for a while anyways. Right now lets just be friends and spend some more time together. See how it goes."

Yea..
he's still weird about it.
though he's on board with that plan.

He'll come over to spend time with my roommate, (his friend) and his other guy friends and i'll be studying or something and he'll just end up coming and sitting with me though i'm not doing anything fun and all his friends get ticked with him. He talks about being snuggley and getting kisses, he says. "I wish circumstances were different." (Which is dumb cause its not really circumstances, just his inability to grow a pair.) What a confusing person.
 

Totenkindly

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I don't know about rules. I just told him that since we already act like we're in a relationship and I don't want to set myself up to get too attached and hurt by someone who doesn't want to commit.... So, I just refrain from things that I think are going to make me too attached,

I think that you have intuitively played this just right, that's perfect. You are giving him freedom to invest what he will but you are also responding to his choices and letting him know what you can invest based on what he's giving.

That's very cool -- it protects you, plus it doesn't try to control him (which is partly what he could be scared of). He now is free to explore and figure himself out, while at the same time you are taking care of yourself.

But again. I'm not trying to force him into anything. And I told him that. I just want to protect myself from focusing too much on someone who has no actual attachment to me beyond friendship.

Definitely. I wish more people understanding instinctively how to do this, I think it would help a lot of relationships go more smoothly. Usually people try to control each other, directly or by "giving more" than they really can safely afford to (i.e., what the other person is willing to give), and then someone gets taken advantage of and hurt.
 

redacted

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Here's a guess, based on personal psychology.

Other people's emotions have always seemed to me to be the scariest thing in the world. I spend my life trying to figure out how things work and how to predict things, but someone else's feelings can just jump in and interrupt my life at any random time.

The way I've always viewed my own emotions is this: they come up, I integrate them into my view of the current situation, then I try to come up with the most rational course of action taking my emotions and what I can see into account. When I do in fact bring up my negative emotions, tact is extremely important, because it minimizes the possibility of more bad things happening. But most of the time, I simulate an entire discussion about a negative emotion in my head and decide acting on it won't really bring me anything.

So when I actually do find it prudent to have a discussion about a negative feeling I have, it means I couldn't figure out a way to deal with it on my own. And it means I've tried really hard to. Because of this, the feelings I actually express are the most intense, most heavy ones I feel -- the ones I can barely handle.

I think SFPs may in fact be the types that are on average the MOST different from me in terms of expressing emotions. For them, it seems more like a constant flow, with many not being a huge deal. But I can't really deduce which ones are big deals -- there's a lot of data to work with. Assuming they're all not a big deal leads me to trouble (and is heavily negatively reinforced), so I devote a lot of energy to each emotional expression I see because it might happen to be the one that's a big deal.

After a while, the dynamic looks like this: I hold back 95% of my negative emotions, showing only the ones I really can't handle. Meanwhile, I'm processing tons of emotions from the other person, most of which, according to my own strategy, aren't even worth bringing up. So I begin to build resentment for having to process both people's emotions, and the other person not having the courtesy to hold back useless expressions of negative emotion. And the other person is probably annoyed at me for being distant and unexpressive. But I'm only distant because I'm devoting so much energy to managing this stuff. So I get even more defensive because I know why I'm distant and I feel like they think it's selfish, when I know it's the opposite.

So on the surface I probably look scared and helpless a lot of the time. And the emotions I have on the table are on average more intense than the other person's, because I already filter out the ones that aren't.

And I know how I look, and I hate it, which makes me thought-loop even more, etc.
 
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