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[INTP] INTP's and relationships

Totenkindly

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:sick: Not every INTP remains an emotionally stunted 'tard preying on the stupidest and most gullible of the opposite sex.

lol... still wondering where the word "relationship" factors into that post.

Just sounds like a user/consumer to me.

I would hope we could aspire to something even more challenging, more brave, and more liberating. Consuming/Using others is just a form of control based on fear of vulnerability, without which there is no such thing as "intimacy."
 

JLM

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lol... still wondering where the word "relationship" factors into that post.

Just sounds like a user/consumer to me.

I would hope we could aspire to something even more challenging, more brave, and more liberating. Consuming/Using others is just a form of control based on fear of vulnerability, without which there is no such thing as "intimacy."

Sounds like a realist to me , someone who has "figured" it out and is now playing the game to "win", INTP's spend a majority of their young adulthood being doormats and losers when it comes to the opposite sex ,because we always try to make sense of our feelings, we approach everything from a logical perspective, even more so than other types , but that's a mistake as women are not logical, women are irrational creatures obsesses with fantasy, so we learn to put our logic on hold for the woman's sake because they usually don't make sense, but in return for that expect us to stay in a detached , nonreactive state emotionally.

and by the way I think I used relationship 6 times in my post:)
 

Totenkindly

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Sounds like a realist to me , someone who has "figured" it out and is now playing the game to "win",

That's exactly the problem.

Relationships are not "games to win," they are collaborative efforts. And that is just the "barest of basics" when it comes to understanding relationships, it's a core foundation for actually building something healthy with someone else. If you're viewing relationships at core as a form of manipulation and exploitation by one part over the other, you're really not getting it regardless of how well you think you are playing the game.

Been there, done that. I've twenty years of a difficult marriage behind me and it taught me a lot, made me reconsider where I was coming from. It was horrid to go through, but at least now I'm happy I did.
INTP's spend a majority of their young adulthood being doormats and losers when it comes to the opposite sex ,because we always try to make sense of our feelings, we approach everything from a logical perspective, even more so than other types , but that's a mistake as women are not logical, women are irrational creatures obsesses with fantasy, so we learn to put our logic on hold for the woman's sake because they usually don't make sense, but in return for that expect us to stay in a detached , nonreactive state emotionally.

I guess "women INTPs" are a contradiction to you, then? ;)

I don't think it's about putting your logic on hold, I think what would be of benefit (which I hinted at before) is learning to do something entirely new: Integrate your emotional life with your logic, learning how to view the world through different frameworks besides the hyper-intellect one you were born into. That is where true courage comes into play -- to put yourself in a position where nothing you know can be of use to you, in order to understand other people and engage them where they are at.

Right now, you sound like you're just "humoring" women. Disdain for and/or humoring of another viewpoint with no intent to understand or truly engage is really nothing to brag about, nor will it bring a relationship where both people feel safe enough to open up to each other.

and by the way I think I used relationship 6 times in my post:)

Congrats. :) That and $120K + 120 credits will get you a degree in Psychology.
 

Coriolis

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I don't think it's about putting your logic on hold, I think what would be of benefit (which I hinted at before) is learning to do something entirely new: Integrate your emotional life with your logic, learning how to view the world through different frameworks besides the hyper-intellect one you were born into. That is where true courage comes into play -- to put yourself in a position where nothing you know can be of use to you, in order to understand other people and engage them where they are at.
If I knew how to do that, I would be . . . well, I'm not sure what I'd be, but I suspect alot of my questions would be answered. I have been in that position where nothing I know is of any use, and it is frustrating as hell. I suppose a downside of living with an INTP is that neither of us sees it as a high priority (or has a clue how) to correct this.
 

JLM

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That's exactly the problem.

Relationships are not "games to win," they are collaborative efforts. And that is just the "barest of basics" when it comes to understanding relationships, it's a core foundation for actually building something healthy with someone else. If you're viewing relationships at core as a form of manipulation and exploitation by one part over the other, you're really not getting it regardless of how well you think you are playing the game.



Been there, done that. I've twenty years of a difficult marriage behind me and it taught me a lot, made me reconsider where I was coming from. It was horrid to go through, but at least now I'm happy I did.


It's not manipulation it's more about building attraction and drawing those emotions out, besides if the other party is willingly taking part in it, relationships are all about the man protecting the women and enjoying each others company, that's what sustains "healthy" relationships and that's what the OP is referring to with her and the INTP she no longer feels desirable or attracted to him because he no longer draws those feelings out because of critical mistakes he made with the "game"


I guess "women INTPs" are a contradiction to you, then? ;)

I don't think it's about putting your logic on hold, I think what would be of benefit (which I hinted at before) is learning to do something entirely new: Integrate your emotional life with your logic, learning how to view the world through different frameworks besides the hyper-intellect one you were born into. That is where true courage comes into play -- to put yourself in a position where nothing you know can be of use to you, in order to understand other people and engage them where they are


INTP females have it even harder than men because of traditional gender roles, but this same approach could apply to them as well as we all suffer from weak Fe which is the most critical aspect when it comes to interpersonal relationships.

It's that same frame work of hyper-intelligence and detachment that initially attracts most women to us, but then our weak Fe usually messes it up as we don't understand the proper social protocols or how to emote properly to the opposite sex, and that's what she's in the OP about her INTP been there before it sounds just like me at 21-22 yrs old, I would start the relationship cool and logical, then my weak Fe or undestanding of women and my own emotions, I would say and do things that were inappropriate and push the woman away, INTP doesn't understand subtly when expressing emotions it usually just spills over, it's similar to feeding a man that hasn't eaten in days but INTP probably haven't expressed thier emotions in yrs, that's why once you combine understanding your emotions and keeping a tight lid on them and just exposing a woman to your keen intelliect while being detached emotionally which is more logical to do in relationships with women becuase the mystery and the fantasy keeps women attracted in relationships and not just foolishly spilling over your emotions, Men can't approach relationships logically so we're at a disadvantage being INTP whose Logic is our most dominant trait, so we sacrifice doing what is most reasonable but don't expect us to break that frame, expect the more seasoned INTP's to stay detached throughout the relationship.


I got 10 yrs of experience and a degree in common sense that cost me nothing
 

Salomé

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Yeah being an INTP myself I can relate we REALLY struggle when it comes to the opposite sex but once we get "it" we become some of the most calculating , unemotional players of all 16 types, most pickup artist or hardcore players are in fact INTP

14-19 adolescence is usually lived in our own heads afraid of intimacy most of us never have girlfriends or sex in high-school

21-27 Young adulthood is us getting used to approaching women and having relationships , remember the typical male of other types has at least 5-7 yrs on us when dealing with the opposite sex, so we're just learning how to be in relationships. We usually use our significant others as a sponge for emotions we otherwise would never show on a day to day basis, once we finally are allowed to express those suppressed feelings of love, it's often too much for women to bare, and when we're not irrationally expressing ourselves. we spend the other part of our relationship doubting ourselves and over thinking everything which usually drives a woman nuts, so after a couple bad relationships and experiences with women we start to over analyze ourselves and go into a bitter self seclusion from women all together.

late 20's -early 30's are when INTP usually put everything together, we either seek help for our ineptitude with dealing with the opposite sex, or our obsession with improving and perfecting every area of our lives drives us until we not only understand the opposite sex but we become masters of the game. That cool, collective, quirky yet emotionally detached INTP, will remain that way throughout the relationship because he now knows the ramifications of inappropriately spilling over his emotions too soon, as he knows it will throw women off guard and turn them off, it'll be extremely hard to get him to commit or get him in a frame of mind where he isn't control , as here the INTP has mastered himself but has also mastered how to be alone, we get so used to it that , relationships always come secondary at this point he has his mind made up about how he's going to live his life, it might include you and it may not but he could care less, as tomorrow he'll just build attraction with another woman. The game becomes his chess board and from here on every woman is just a pawn, nobody struggles yet succeeds with women quite like an INTP.
This makes a lot of sense.

:sick:

Not every INTP remains an emotionally stunted 'tard preying on the stupidest and most gullible of the opposite sex.

LOL. Afraid of the compeTITion?
 

RaptorWizard

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INTPs and relationships? Everybody knows that a true INTP is a loner who shuns the stupid multitudes!
 

ThreeTimes

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When we fall in love with someone we are not falling in love with INTP , or ESTJ, or RBWZ , but with unique person. That person, has a personal history, family history. She/he also has certain beliefs, certain system for valuing. This person has it's goals, meaning, skills, preferences, likes and dislikes. It is more complicated that ISFJ or ENTP. I though of mentioning all this because I felt there was no personal touch to the problem of relationship of that girl and boy.
I just want to bring this up, because it deserves much more attention then just general characteristics of the type.

I think people should talk about how they see their close environment, how they see their friends and the idea of friendship. What they think about the idea of relationship. We should help each other out to bring out those thoughts. To share , which means to give and to receive. Of course, those are not only things we should talk about. We should also work together. Make things, write letters, read books to one another. Walk for the sake of walking. It's easy to say all this. :)

Look at this short movie clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYUolurihOQ .... the point is that "THE SLOW BLADE PENETRATES THE SHIELD", it tells me a great secret, BE PATIENT, TAKE THINGS SLOW ENOUGH TO PENETRATE THE "SHIELD". Of course, we need practice. :)

Obviously, this is how I see things. :)
 

rav3n

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INTPs go into a Ne-Fe thing when emotional and become completely irrational, since Ne's bouncing around, finding tenuous links to support their hurt. What I find works most of the time with my INTP, is to engage his Ti. In doing so, he regrounds when given enough space and time.
 

INTP

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INTPs go into a Ne-Fe thing when emotional and become completely irrational, since Ne's bouncing around, finding tenuous links to support their hurt. What I find works most of the time with my INTP, is to engage his Ti. In doing so, he regrounds when given enough space and time.

if Fe goes off the wall with Ne, i think its best if you just talk about your feelings and why you feel the way you do(doing this takes his Ti into the equation and might help him feel less frustrated and give in easier since he doesent have to just go with Fe) regarding that what ever thing thats off. if that INTP cares about your feelings, its processed with Fe by putting great importance to them and problem solved.
 

rav3n

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if Fe goes off the wall with Ne, i think its best if you just talk about your feelings and why you feel the way you do(doing this takes his Ti into the equation and might help him feel less frustrated and give in easier since he doesent have to just go with Fe) regarding that what ever thing thats off. if that INTP cares about your feelings, its processed with Fe by putting great importance to them and problem solved.
You'd think so, right? Nope, this does not work when Ne-Feing. Tried this with other INTPs and found they feel manipulated. Engaging Ti appears to put them into a more objective frame of mind, hence more inclined to listen and actually hear, rather than continuing to externally emote irrationality.
 

Redbone

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You'd think so, right? Nope, this does not work when Ne-Feing. Tried this with other INTPs and found they feel manipulated. Engaging Ti appears to put them into a more objective frame of mind, hence more inclined to listen and actually hear, rather than continuing to externally emote irrationality.

I have to say that this works best for me.
 

Redbone

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The Ti or the Fe engagement?

Ti engagement. Specifically, I need to use Ne to feed Ti, not Fe. As long as the Ne/Fe cycle is running, I'll take the tiniest bits of irrelevant information to conclude things like "You don't like me anymore because you didn't answer your phone!" Ti/Ne will say something like, "She might still be working on her project. I'll talk to her later." Ti/Ne won't even really be more positive but just kinda neutral about things.
 

rav3n

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Ti engagement. Specifically, I need to use Ne to feed Ti, not Fe. As long as the Ne/Fe cycle is running, I'll take the tiniest bits of irrelevant information to conclude things like "You don't like me anymore because you didn't answer your phone!" Ti/Ne will say something like, "She might still be working on her project. I'll talk to her later." Ti/Ne won't even really be more positive but just kinda neutral about things.
I wasn't sure but yes, how you've explained it is how it rolls out with my INTP.
 

INTP

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You'd think so, right? Nope, this does not work when Ne-Feing. Tried this with other INTPs and found they feel manipulated. Engaging Ti appears to put them into a more objective frame of mind, hence more inclined to listen and actually hear, rather than continuing to externally emote irrationality.

i think you might have some different idea about Ne-Feing and are referring to some type of specific situation that im not aware of(you didnt explain much other than "NeFe = wacko emo and he needs me to activate Ti to sort it out").

what came to my mind was that something you did triggered his Ne to look for possibilities of something and those possibilities were around something that he values a lot, if he goes bat shit crazy, its most likely about something he values being dangered(for example losing you because of X and Y). you cant really talk about anything happening between two functions alone and him being Ti dom, he will be using Ti and Si also. what happens after FeNe come up with a hypothesis that there is a possibility of losing something valuable, Ti starts to analyze it and try to invalidate the hypothesis and if by lack of information(you sharing how you feel and why for example) it is not possible to logically invalidate the hypothesis, it starts to haunt him, a lot and most likely everything starts to seem as if they were to back up this hypothesis, due to Si. this is where the emo shit storm happens because Ti cant inhibit those unconscious impulses and they brake free. but you see, if you are providing this missing information to him that makes it impossible for his Ti to come up with invalidation to his hypothesis about all sorts of nasty shit our wild imagination can come up with, then the whole hypothesis falls down and emo shit storm goes away.

i dont even know how you would be able to engage his Ti in the first place, other than telling him logical reasons why he is wrong, but i dont think this is the best way to go, because if you really want to engage his Ti, you need to feed it with raw material(information about your feeling and reasons behind them for example) and let him do the Ti magic.

lets say that he thinks that you were really unfair towards him about something important and he pretty much feels that it might be a deal breaker and he has went through all possible hypothesis for reasons behind your actions and cant find anything other than deal breaker stuff, so he gets emo. how do you think that you should be approaching this by engaging his Ti?
 

INTP

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Ti engagement. Specifically, I need to use Ne to feed Ti, not Fe. As long as the Ne/Fe cycle is running, I'll take the tiniest bits of irrelevant information to conclude things like "You don't like me anymore because you didn't answer your phone!" Ti/Ne will say something like, "She might still be working on her project. I'll talk to her later." Ti/Ne won't even really be more positive but just kinda neutral about things.

i dont agree with this Ti not being able to come up with grim shit with Ne, thats just totally absurd. also that "She might still be working on her project. I'll talk to her later." isnt any more Ti than "You don't like me anymore because you didn't answer your phone!". Ti is about reasoning and can come up with hundreds of reasons why not answering the phone means she doesent like you anymore. Ti is only objective in the sense that it doesent rule out the unwanted because its unwanted, if it rules out the unwanted its because its not logical and well, if it cant rule out the unwanted it can get pretty grim..
 

Salomé

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I know this is a really old thread, but I only just bothered to read the whole thing, because, frankly, once you've read one "INTPs make shitty partners" thread, you've read them all. I agree with whoever said type shouldn't be over-emphasised in a relationship. Particularly true when you consider how many people in this thread alone have subsequently changed their type. Which makes an absurdity of all the type-based analysis related to themselves.

[edited per request]

If it's true that INTPs do not relish commitment, it is not because they are immature, but the opposite. It is based on a better-than-average understanding and appreciation of human frailty. A frailty the vast majority seem to blithely ignore as they go about making promises that they are clearly unqualified to make and unlikely to keep.

i think for me, the biggest frustration is that even the most basic form of commitment, my INTP can't commit to -- he's already doing it (not seeing other people, aka, be exclusive), but when pressed - "are we exclusive?", he can't tell me that he won't in the future cause he's not ready...nor can he even tell me how he feels about me or where he sees things going.

i think the intp excuse of "being scared" is a lame one. heck, as the other party, i'm *really* scared too but i don't let it prevent me from pursuing it (esp. when i feel that i'm falling for him, and i can sense he is as well for me through his subtle actions). i second cafe's comment. some of these guys need to be a 'big boy' and just man up....
You're right. It's not about being scared, it's about being realistic.

Of course he can't predict the future, it's utterly unreasonable to demand that he do the impossible, just to make you feel secure. This is how deceit and dishonesty creep into relationships. If you did but know it, it's your own insecurity and immaturity that is/was jeopardising your happiness.
"labels" matter to me because it shows that my intp cares.
Labels mean nothing to INTPs. As such, all they show is that you have imposed your standards of what is desirable upon the relationship.
If someone is already demonstrating commitment by his actions, then it is redundant to also express this in words. After all, why is commitment important to anyone? At root it's about fidelity. And when it comes to fidelity, actions are all that matter.
I guess I don't understand why you're asking questions that a) you already know the answer to or b) are unanswerable. That kind of shit is pretty trying for an INTP. Smells of manipulation. Or stupidity.

It is only because the INTP takes commitments seriously that he (wisely) hesitates. Fools rush in. Perhaps we take them too seriously? Too literally. Personally, I prefer that fault to the alternative.

This is why F types throw me because to me it's a big deal tbut to them it isn't.
Quite.
 

RaptorWizard

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:dry: It doesn't surprise me that I come to an INTP thread just to see a bunch of long and boring walls of text of an overly technical nature that I lack the proper patience as well as reasoning skills to understand or even look through. :(

INTPs don't like people :mad: - I expressed that simple idea in 4 words whereas people like Salome and especially INTP take 1000 words to say.

Please folks annihilate my inferior mind in an argument and show me the true incompetence of my insane assertions! :D

I always like a good challenge. It gives me a chance to rise.
 

WheresMyBunnies

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Counter argument: I hug my friends, therefore I like people. Do I like the entire human race? No, but more than enough to say I like people.
 
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