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  1. #201
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    Ya, the poster who just came before me may have been more concise with their question than a lot of the other responces here, but a still can't follow that kind of deductive chain of reasoning. It makes my brain hurt!

    I mean what are you trying to say? You start off with some strange definition on liking people, and then connect that to a lack of like for humanity as a whole. I guess though the conclusion may be that people by their true and independent natures are better than how they come together on a global level.

    You may like relationships more than universal acceptance. I like the latter more though, as it sees and appreciates diverse points of view.

  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    Ya, the poster who just came before me may have been more concise with their question than a lot of the other responces here, but a still can't follow that kind of deductive chain of reasoning. It makes my brain hurt!

    I mean what are you trying to say? You start off with some strange definition on liking people, and then connect that to a lack of like for humanity as a whole. I guess though the conclusion may be that people by their true and independent natures are better than how they come together on a global level.

    You may like relationships more than universal acceptance. I like the latter more though, as it sees and appreciates diverse points of view.
    humans as a species are rotten shit who are destroying the earth and fucking up the balance of the nature(and yes we as humans are part of nature, but we are modifying the other parts of it to the extend that is not natural for other animals), a large part of people are stupid sheep, selfish or just plain evil sons of bitches.

    but then there is another side to this, which is that humans have potential to be good/fun/whatevernicethings, so there are individuals who stand out positively from all the shit we are surrounded by, they may or may not get a hug, but nevertheless are accepted.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    humans as a species are rotten shit who are destroying the earth and fucking up the balance of the nature(and yes we as humans are part of nature, but we are modifying the other parts of it to the extend that is not natural for other animals), a large part of people are stupid sheep, selfish or just plain evil sons of bitches.

    but then there is another side to this, which is that humans have potential to be good/fun/whatevernicethings, so there are individuals who stand out positively from all the shit we are surrounded by, they may or may not get a hug, but nevertheless are accepted.
    What's inherently wrong with destroying the Earth or fucking up nature? Does any balance in nature exist considering any life form can undergo a population explosion in the right conditions, leading to the eventual point where their demands on the food chain results in a population die-off? Sounds a little bi-polar to me. Nature doesn't seem to care, she enjoys a bit of the "olde mass extinction" [sic] game every 100 million years or so. In the past she has turned planet Earth into the stinkiest shithole imaginable; a crapsack world complete with methane and sulphur, barren fields and dead seas. How is anything we can do unnatural to the other life on the planet?

    Does good or evil exist? Is acceptance of others inherently good? Are misanthrophy or philanthropy irrational and if yes are they more irrational than liking or disliking someone purely on the basis of their character?

    Please excuse the above. I could have resisted but I chose not to.

    In regards to this thread, I myself have found what I have read of it fascinating. I could relate to a lot of it as well; a lot of their concerns including those mentioned on the previous page were ones I could identify with. Relationships are IMO one of the human race's biggest banes. IMO It is an opiate which draws two people together and encourages reproduction but IMO the evolution of our brains has distorted it to the point where it has become a superfluous ritual which we crave on some level. Perhaps it was only those who chose to entertain in the past passed it on but in a hypothetical world where total dog eat dog doesn't exist it could eventually lessen due to becoming less of a pre-requisite to reproduction (e.g. artificial insemination) and its influence could become majorly diluted over time. Perhaps sex on its own is the better path.

    Relationship partners (especially feelers) would be wise to listen to you as if the people in this thread are a good sample of the INTP population's general understanding of the subject then your type has much to teach the less knowledgable. I myself will try taking notes. Excuse the feeler intrusion and any smoke blowing, I am off.

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by Standuble View Post
    What's inherently wrong with destroying the Earth or fucking up nature?
    To the extent that "wrong" has any meaning in a moral sense (and essentially, its meaning derives from "that which is harmful") it is wrong. Tautologically.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    To the extent that "wrong" has any meaning in a moral sense (and essentially, its meaning derives from "that which is harmful") it is wrong. Tautologically.
    What if it is harmful but creates a greater benefit as a result? An example would be destroying a section of rainforest. The habitat of many animals are destroyed however the increased exposure to sunlight on the surface allows for a development of greater flora diversity and population growth of a number of small animal species which were previously preyed on by the larger animals which were booted out? In my view this is what the fucking up of nature has done throughout history. How does one measure "harmful" when resulting benefits cannot be measured? Perhaps you know because its quite the conundrum to me which influences essentially my whole moral outlook.

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by Standuble View Post
    What if it is harmful but creates a greater benefit as a result? An example would be destroying a section of rainforest. The habitat of many animals are destroyed however the increased exposure to sunlight on the surface allows for a development of greater flora diversity and population growth of a number of small animal species which were previously preyed on by the larger animals which were booted out?
    That isn't destruction. That's renewal and is inherent in the ecosystem. Destruction implies permanently altering the habitat such that regeneration is unlikely, if not impossible. Eg slash and burn agriculture.
    How does one measure "harmful" when resulting benefits cannot be measured? Perhaps you know because its quite the conundrum to me which influences essentially my whole moral outlook.
    Loss of biodiversity is one way to measure it. There are no resulting benefits from permanent species loss, IMO.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  8. #208
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    Animals attack and eat each other alive, and I think that's just as bad as what we people do to animals; the conclusion is inescapable - the natural order is evil!

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    That isn't destruction. That's renewal and is inherent in the ecosystem. Destruction implies permanently altering the habitat such that regeneration is unlikely, if not impossible. Eg slash and burn agriculture.
    Fair enough. Note: My example was built around the assumption that it was a human-caused deforestation of said area and the notion of destruction as limited to the trees themselves (and not necessarily to the soil and land) with nature taking advantage of this new vacuum. Plus on a long enough timeline renewal can take root in slash and burn regions although with a different composition of flora and fauna by it gradually creeping in over the course of many years if not millennia.

    Loss of biodiversity is one way to measure it. There are no resulting benefits from permanent species loss, IMO.
    What if the species lost was a primary consumer/predator and carried considerable influence in the ecosystem e.g. humanity itself? Numerous species can come to exist in the future which otherwise may not of been possible. An ending creating a new beginning. Supposedly 99% of all species that have existed are extinct and yet new bio-diversity is created which otherwise could not have occurred. That's why I don't think it can be measured as future benefits cannot be predicted.

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by Standuble View Post
    What's inherently wrong with destroying the Earth or fucking up nature? Does any balance in nature exist considering any life form can undergo a population explosion in the right conditions, leading to the eventual point where their demands on the food chain results in a population die-off? Sounds a little bi-polar to me. Nature doesn't seem to care, she enjoys a bit of the "olde mass extinction" [sic] game every 100 million years or so. In the past she has turned planet Earth into the stinkiest shithole imaginable; a crapsack world complete with methane and sulphur, barren fields and dead seas. How is anything we can do unnatural to the other life on the planet?
    "if you watch the land, you'll see all this plant life, but the poison plants have no friends. look at all the friends here, they all coexist with one another, with the bees, with the birds, with the worms, with the snakes, preria dogs, everything, the antilopes, grasses, bushes, all coexist to help one another. you get to a poisonous plant and they have no friends, its bare around the poisonous plants. thats natural law; you can blend in with everything and everyone if you are friendly and you share and you sacrifice. thats what you can learn from just plant life and if you are a poisonous person, you are not going to have any friends. period. so why be that person?"
    -Russel Means

    people and their ways are poison to other life that doesent benefit them(and even to many that would benefit them).
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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