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  1. #11
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    "Either we're friends, or we're together."

    INTPs like myself would agree we want the best of both worlds to be physically intimate with you without the constrictions of a relationship. Makes perfect sense to me.

    You may say WTF? But when he commits, if he chooses, he will likely be more loyal than others who are quick to commit and then go on serial monogamy “dating” sprees.
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Spamtar - a strange combination of boorish drunkeness and erudite discussions, or what I call "an Irish academic"

  2. #12
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    I will say that I experience a strong push/pull in my relationships, and it's a matter of commitment.

    I can feel a lot of emotion towards someone and want to engage them / be with them, while at the same time I really don't like to be locked into a particular outcome. (INTPs are open-ended: You must analyze all new information and if the new information changes the situation, then you must go with it... but relationships set an answer ahead of time and you're supposed to commit to it even if things change some.) So commitment is pretty scary, especially if built on EMOTION rather than logic. But many relationships like this are driven at first by emotion, not logic. Emotion changes and seems very unstable to INTPs, it can't be trusted for decision-making... but when you're in love the emotions are SO strong they are hard to reject.

    So I'm saying he sounds like a relationally young INTP who is really enamoured with you but is terrified to commit. Eventually he'll get a better grasp of what his emotions mean long-term, what feelings he can trust and what he can't, and when it's time to make a commitment in order to reap the real benefits of a relationship... since most people need some sort of commitment in order to invest.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #13
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    ^ Yeah the terror part of the commitment dynamics/boundaries/rules which the OP is mandating prolly throws off his Fe even more.
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Spamtar - a strange combination of boorish drunkeness and erudite discussions, or what I call "an Irish academic"

  4. #14
    Senior Member MonkeyGrass's Avatar
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    I think it's good to realize that within types, people are also individuals, and have their own hangups. The commitment thing could be a product of his personality, or something else entirely.

    In college, my then-boyfriend INTJ was absolutely head over heels and gushing emotion everywhere, and got a little overwhelmed by his own breakneck pace. He started insisting that we no longer say "I love you", and that it was moving too fast, while simultaneously plucking out all the flowers from the school's flower bed and bringing them to me every time he saw me.

    Be straightforward. Something like, "You're the kind of person I'd like to have a relationship with. It seems like you like me, too. Before I feel good about hanging out as much as you want to, it'd be encouraging to hear that you see potential there, too, so I know I'm not just being played. If your intentions are good, then I'd love to keep the ball rolling and see what happens."

    That's nice and safe and informative, doesn't press for actual commitment, doesn't pull his emotional drawers down too much, and gives him a chance to safely take a baby step forward.

    (Take that, of course with a grain of salt or the whole margarita)
    I think I think more than you think I think.

  5. #15
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    I was gonna respond, but Jennifer basically said it all.

  6. #16
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I will say that I experience a strong push/pull in my relationships, and it's a matter of commitment.

    I can feel a lot of emotion towards someone and want to engage them / be with them, while at the same time I really don't like to be locked into a particular outcome. (INTPs are open-ended: You must analyze all new information and if the new information changes the situation, then you must go with it... but relationships set an answer ahead of time and you're supposed to commit to it even if things change some.) So commitment is pretty scary, especially if built on EMOTION rather than logic. But many relationships like this are driven at first by emotion, not logic. Emotion changes and seems very unstable to INTPs, it can't be trusted for decision-making... but when you're in love the emotions are SO strong they are hard to reject.

    So I'm saying he sounds like a relationally young INTP who is really enamoured with you but is terrified to commit. Eventually he'll get a better grasp of what his emotions mean long-term, what feelings he can trust and what he can't, and when it's time to make a commitment in order to reap the real benefits of a relationship... since most people need some sort of commitment in order to invest.
    Thanks!! that's helpful



    Quote Originally Posted by spamtar View Post
    "Either we're friends, or we're together."

    INTPs like myself would agree we want the best of both worlds to be physically intimate with you without the constrictions of a relationship. Makes perfect sense to me.

    You may say WTF? But when he commits, if he chooses, he will likely be more loyal than others who are quick to commit and then go on serial monogamy “dating” sprees.
    Yea, men in general like the best of both worlds haha.


    Quote Originally Posted by spamtar View Post
    ^ Yeah the terror part of the commitment dynamics/boundaries/rules which the OP is mandating prolly throws off his Fe even more.
    I don't know about rules. I just told him that since we already act like we're in a relationship and I don't want to set myself up to get too attached and hurt by someone who doesn't want to commit. I'm not trying to crack the whip too much. So, I just refrain from things that I think are going to make me too attached, IE. Cuddling/kissing/discussion about how we feel about one another.I just don't see the point of that. I'm not trying to "cut him off to get my way" but I need to preserve my own emotions too. But yea, boundaries for sure.
    I can see why he's scared.

    But again. I'm not trying to force him into anything. And I told him that. I just want to protect myself from focusing too much on someone who has no actual attachment to me beyond friendship.

  7. #17
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    Really from what you say I think you want similar things often with INTPs its the labeling which throws them off.

    For example: MonkeyGrass's reframing technique is excellent and should go down just well with an INTP as well as her INTJ.
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Spamtar - a strange combination of boorish drunkeness and erudite discussions, or what I call "an Irish academic"

  8. #18
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyGrass View Post

    Be straightforward. Something like, "You're the kind of person I'd like to have a relationship with. It seems like you like me, too. Before I feel good about hanging out as much as you want to, it'd be encouraging to hear that you see potential there, too, so I know I'm not just being played. If your intentions are good, then I'd love to keep the ball rolling and see what happens."

    YES. That is exactly about what i've been telling him. I said something kind of like-
    "I do like you very much. I just don't want to get hurt by having all this relationshippey stuff going on without any commitment on your part. I'm not in a big hurry just to be in a relationship, so I probably won't be dating anyone else for a while anyways. Right now lets just be friends and spend some more time together. See how it goes."

    Yea..
    he's still weird about it.
    though he's on board with that plan.

    He'll come over to spend time with my roommate, (his friend) and his other guy friends and i'll be studying or something and he'll just end up coming and sitting with me though i'm not doing anything fun and all his friends get ticked with him. He talks about being snuggley and getting kisses, he says. "I wish circumstances were different." (Which is dumb cause its not really circumstances, just his inability to grow a pair.) What a confusing person.

  9. #19
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    I don't know about rules. I just told him that since we already act like we're in a relationship and I don't want to set myself up to get too attached and hurt by someone who doesn't want to commit.... So, I just refrain from things that I think are going to make me too attached,
    I think that you have intuitively played this just right, that's perfect. You are giving him freedom to invest what he will but you are also responding to his choices and letting him know what you can invest based on what he's giving.

    That's very cool -- it protects you, plus it doesn't try to control him (which is partly what he could be scared of). He now is free to explore and figure himself out, while at the same time you are taking care of yourself.

    But again. I'm not trying to force him into anything. And I told him that. I just want to protect myself from focusing too much on someone who has no actual attachment to me beyond friendship.
    Definitely. I wish more people understanding instinctively how to do this, I think it would help a lot of relationships go more smoothly. Usually people try to control each other, directly or by "giving more" than they really can safely afford to (i.e., what the other person is willing to give), and then someone gets taken advantage of and hurt.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  10. #20
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Here's a guess, based on personal psychology.

    Other people's emotions have always seemed to me to be the scariest thing in the world. I spend my life trying to figure out how things work and how to predict things, but someone else's feelings can just jump in and interrupt my life at any random time.

    The way I've always viewed my own emotions is this: they come up, I integrate them into my view of the current situation, then I try to come up with the most rational course of action taking my emotions and what I can see into account. When I do in fact bring up my negative emotions, tact is extremely important, because it minimizes the possibility of more bad things happening. But most of the time, I simulate an entire discussion about a negative emotion in my head and decide acting on it won't really bring me anything.

    So when I actually do find it prudent to have a discussion about a negative feeling I have, it means I couldn't figure out a way to deal with it on my own. And it means I've tried really hard to. Because of this, the feelings I actually express are the most intense, most heavy ones I feel -- the ones I can barely handle.

    I think SFPs may in fact be the types that are on average the MOST different from me in terms of expressing emotions. For them, it seems more like a constant flow, with many not being a huge deal. But I can't really deduce which ones are big deals -- there's a lot of data to work with. Assuming they're all not a big deal leads me to trouble (and is heavily negatively reinforced), so I devote a lot of energy to each emotional expression I see because it might happen to be the one that's a big deal.

    After a while, the dynamic looks like this: I hold back 95% of my negative emotions, showing only the ones I really can't handle. Meanwhile, I'm processing tons of emotions from the other person, most of which, according to my own strategy, aren't even worth bringing up. So I begin to build resentment for having to process both people's emotions, and the other person not having the courtesy to hold back useless expressions of negative emotion. And the other person is probably annoyed at me for being distant and unexpressive. But I'm only distant because I'm devoting so much energy to managing this stuff. So I get even more defensive because I know why I'm distant and I feel like they think it's selfish, when I know it's the opposite.

    So on the surface I probably look scared and helpless a lot of the time. And the emotions I have on the table are on average more intense than the other person's, because I already filter out the ones that aren't.

    And I know how I look, and I hate it, which makes me thought-loop even more, etc.

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