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  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    Lol!

    haha.


    Hahahaha!! Love it. Sounds like a quote or something



    Just what a girl always needs to hear!



    I know, tell me about it.


    I've been avoiding him like the plague. I'm pulling an esfp conflict avoidance majorly. I think he wants to get together. But so far I've even changed my new years plans so that I could go to a party without him there. I also set up plans with friends for every single night this week to not accidentally be home while he's here. I just don't do well with dramas.

    Actually, I just had a conversation with him on IM right now that proves the drama. Like, "well, this has been nice, ttyl I guess." Its like so weird and foreign to me to talk that way to people. I was being nice enough I think.

    (I am the 678)

    wels (11:23:14 PM): Back home?
    678 (11:23:21 PM): yea, been back
    wels (11:23:31 PM): oh cool
    wels (11:23:49 PM): Still on vacation though right
    678 (11:24:17 PM): just got outta work
    els (11:24:36 PM): fuuun
    678 (11:25:23 PM): yea
    wels (11:26:51 PM): Ok well I'll have to swing by some time to give you your xmas gift
    wels (11:31:18 PM): Well this has been nice.
    wels (11:31:22 PM): I guess I'll ttyl.
    678 (11:31:57 PM): oh sorry
    678 (11:32:05 PM): Adrian got home and let the dogs out
    678 (11:32:09 PM): it went a little crazy
    678 (11:33:57 PM): are you still there?
    678 (11:39:10 PM): Alright, see ya sometime!

    God forbid I don't respond for five minutes. I know i'm not exactly being direct either.. I just don't want to start a big thing on the IM. I guess if the opportunity comes to talk about this further I have to take it. For now I'm just having such a good and fun vacation that I want to keep the peace with him and kind of keep my distance as much as possible.
    Well in that exchange, with everything else that was going on, a lag of 5 minutes or more might lead me to think you didn't really want to talk, which you seem to be saying is true as you are trying to avoid him. He's picking up on that, and letting you go on about your business without him giving you apparently unwanted attention (as he perceives it). But I'm sorry it didn't work out between you guys . I think E_FPs are awesome matches for INTPs, but both individuals really have to be mature for it to work in the long run.

    What were the specific issues that started to make you distance yourself and cut off the relationship, if I may ask?

  2. #162
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    Well in that exchange, with everything else that was going on, a lag of 5 minutes or more might lead me to think you didn't really want to talk, which you seem to be saying is true as you are trying to avoid him. He's picking up on that, and letting you go on about your business without him giving you apparently unwanted attention (as he perceives it). But I'm sorry it didn't work out between you guys . I think E_FPs are awesome matches for INTPs, but both individuals really have to be mature for it to work in the long run.

    What were the specific issues that started to make you distance yourself and cut off the relationship, if I may ask?
    See post 151
    06/13 10:51:03 five sounds: you!!!
    06/13 10:51:08 shortnsweet: no you!!
    06/13 10:51:12 shortnsweet: go do your things and my things too!
    06/13 10:51:23 five sounds: oh hell naw
    06/13 10:51:55 shortnsweet: !!!!
    06/13 10:51:57 shortnsweet: (cries)
    06/13 10:52:19 RiftsWRX: You two are like furbies stuck in a shoe box

    My Nohari
    My Johari
    by sns.

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    I think i've been pretty direct. I don't love him, so that wouldn't work for either of us. I don't know him well enough. (I'm still trying to work through my last guy, actually. He knows that, too.) He knows it all. He knows my whole story. He knows I like him and just don't want to lie or play games. He knows I wouldn't mind a relationship but don't need one either. He knows I don't want anything confusing. He knows I enjoy spending time with him, but want to protect my own feelings, etc. He knows that if I want to start dating later than I will not hesitate to do so if nothing changes.

    So maybe he's insecure about all this.
    Ok, I think this kinda sums up the real problem here (give me a break, it's a long thread). You aren't trying to start anything serious. You want him to tag along as some kind of friendly yet romantic interest that will be there should you ever decide to start dating, which isn't really fair to him, but at least you came out in the open and said it. He probably doesn't know how much of a pitfall that can be... well... I'm sure he does now actually. He probably got too attached to you and wanted/hoped that you guys could take it to the next level, but you haven't budged (?) . That leaves him quite confused as he struggles with the dissonance between his feelings for you and the ambiguous terms of the relationship. He probably started making moves to try and sway you, but having those shot down has put him into a state where he feels he's only losing ground (which is now reality). It's a slippery slope situation, and he is now sliding to the bottom of the hill.

    For me, this is a good reminder of what to avoid.

  4. #164
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    Ok, I think this kinda sums up the real problem here (give me a break, it's a long thread). You aren't trying to start anything serious. You want him to tag along as some kind of friendly yet romantic interest that will be there should you ever decide to start dating, which isn't really fair to him, but at least you came out in the open and said it. He probably doesn't know how much of a pitfall that can be... well... I'm sure he does now actually. He probably got too attached to you and wanted/hoped that you guys could take it to the next level, but you haven't budged (?) . That leaves him quite confused as he struggles with the dissonance between his feelings for you and the ambiguous terms of the relationship. He probably started making moves to try and sway you, but having those shot down has put him into a state where he feels he's only losing ground (which is now reality). It's a slippery slope situation, and he is now sliding to the bottom of the hill.

    For me, this is a good reminder of what to avoid.
    No, I wanted to take it to the next level, and he didn't, (because he said he was scared, etc. Pretty much all the stuff in the beginning of the thread.) . But then I just went along with it because it wasn't hurting anything. Now suddenly he just distanced himself. I think he's stringing me along, if anything!
    06/13 10:51:03 five sounds: you!!!
    06/13 10:51:08 shortnsweet: no you!!
    06/13 10:51:12 shortnsweet: go do your things and my things too!
    06/13 10:51:23 five sounds: oh hell naw
    06/13 10:51:55 shortnsweet: !!!!
    06/13 10:51:57 shortnsweet: (cries)
    06/13 10:52:19 RiftsWRX: You two are like furbies stuck in a shoe box

    My Nohari
    My Johari
    by sns.

  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    No, I wanted to take it to the next level, and he didn't, (because he said he was scared, etc. Pretty much all the stuff in the beginning of the thread.) . But then I just went along with it because it wasn't hurting anything. Now suddenly he just distanced himself. I think he's stringing me along, if anything!
    Ah, I see. Well, his weakness is what led to his ruin. Can't be fearful of entering relationships. It's a leap of faith, but it'll never kill you. He may have low confidence in his ability to maintain a good relationship and give his gf what she needs, a fear I can relate to. But you don't know til you try, and if you don't try, you're guaranteed to gain nothing. That is why fear is completely irrational. You should tell him that.

  6. #166
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    Ah, I see. Well, his weakness is what led to his ruin. Can't be fearful of entering relationships. It's a leap of faith, but it'll never kill you. He may have low confidence in his ability to maintain a good relationship and give his gf what she needs, a fear I can relate to. But you don't know til you try, and if you don't try, you're guaranteed to gain nothing. That is why fear is completely irrational. You should tell him that.
    I did, I did. Will respond in vent!
    06/13 10:51:03 five sounds: you!!!
    06/13 10:51:08 shortnsweet: no you!!
    06/13 10:51:12 shortnsweet: go do your things and my things too!
    06/13 10:51:23 five sounds: oh hell naw
    06/13 10:51:55 shortnsweet: !!!!
    06/13 10:51:57 shortnsweet: (cries)
    06/13 10:52:19 RiftsWRX: You two are like furbies stuck in a shoe box

    My Nohari
    My Johari
    by sns.

  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kra View Post
    I think it's worth saying that the "cool and distant" behavior of INTPs (or maybe INTs in general, as I've done it too) is what allows them to be stable. It is their characteristic method.

    Problem is, relationships are supposed to have some level of warmth, so as that cool distance fades, so too do our methods of maintaining stability. It took me a while to figure out how to remain independent AND appropriately maintain relationships. Sadly, this learning process was initiated by the end of relationships, and not during.

    I haven't gyrated towards INTP status in years, but maybe that info will help somebody. *shrug*
    Is this something you can only learn with experience? The guys the OP describes sound almost exactly like me.

    For two years now I've been on&off with an INFJ. She's a lot of fun, and I empathize with her (rare for me). But I get addicted, attached, and sensitive to the smallest things, and neediness takes place of empathy.

    Something like this happens: We're having fun, and she says she can't wait to do X tomorrow. She's more excited about X than me. Tomorrow comes and she's decided she doesn't really want to do X anymore. I freak out, getting the feeling she doesn't like me anymore, and I whine about it. She responds by pulling away. Then I just start criticizing her new attitude, and she gets stressed and breaks off all communication for a while (without telling me if she's returning).

    When she does leave, I analyze this in a detached manner and realize what a needy, insecure jerk I become. I want to reward her for her patience and just care about her without becoming dependent, but it never works out. Is it a lack of willpower on my part? Am I supposed to just "man up?"

    If being distant and detached keeps INTPs stable, how can we have a stable relationship?

  8. #168
    Senior Member chatoyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hangers View Post
    Something like this happens: We're having fun, and she says she can't wait to do X tomorrow. She's more excited about X than me. Tomorrow comes and she's decided she doesn't really want to do X anymore. I freak out, getting the feeling she doesn't like me anymore, and I whine about it. She responds by pulling away. Then I just start criticizing her new attitude, and she gets stressed and breaks off all communication for a while (without telling me if she's returning).
    How does she do if you're excited about the activity? Does she follow through with it? I'm just wondering if she doesn't want to do X anymore because of your cool response to the activity........I know I, as an NF, like to adapt to my partner's reaction, and if you seem cool to it, I might become less excited about the activity.

    NFs like to pull NTs into their worlds, we enjoy seeing your reaction. So if your reaction seems distant, like we didn't affect you at all, it can kill the experience. Does that make sense?

    I don't want to feel like I'm doing all the work in the relationship, I want this yin/yang to it, that you're reacting to me, I'm reacting to you.......INTPs try to be the distant observer in their own relationships to retain self-control and objectivity, but it can feel like we're losing the experience with you.

  9. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by chatoyer View Post
    How does she do if you're excited about the activity? Does she follow through with it? I'm just wondering if she doesn't want to do X anymore because of your cool response to the activity........I know I, as an NF, like to adapt to my partner's reaction, and if you seem cool to it, I might become less excited about the activity.

    NFs like to pull NTs into their worlds, we enjoy seeing your reaction. So if your reaction seems distant, like we didn't affect you at all, it can kill the experience. Does that make sense?

    I don't want to feel like I'm doing all the work in the relationship, I want this yin/yang to it, that you're reacting to me, I'm reacting to you.......INTPs try to be the distant observer in their own relationships to retain self-control and objectivity, but it can feel like we're losing the experience with you.
    She's said she just wakes up and thinks that particular activity isn't so great anymore, that it has nothing to do with me. She's told me not to take it personally but I always do.

  10. #170
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    Thanks all for the thoughtful posts. This forum is certainly illuminating.

    Perhaps the practical advice has been limited since conclusions were likely made by the first few pages. Stating those conclusions are another matter and often unhelpful (in the INTP frame, anyway, poll-taking is rarely done). I repeat others, however, in that immaturity seems to be an issue and that that type of manipulation should be a major red flag. Also, the idea that we can be "changed" speaks of inexperience as well.

    I'm guessing that, if your contemplated SO is an INTP, friendship won't likely work. Personally, friendships with other INTPs are incredible as we can explode on one another with instant depth and understanding, go back to our solitude, and pick up right where we left off later. In relationships with higher sensing and feeling functions, however, it takes so much energy and I take all the barrage of data so seriously, that it just wears me out. It only works if I'm all-in or very distant (mild acquaintance).

    ...I just read the final few pages and realized it has come to the inevitable.

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