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  1. #1
    the Dark Prophet of Kualu
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    Default This might be a question that . . .

    has come up earlier but I couldn't find it in that case.

    Are NT's initially uncaring and careless of anything with an emotional value?
    Have NT's not built their emotional system? or could an NT turn into NF by harboring F-functions?
    How does that work in that case?

    My reasoning behind this is that I was once careless.
    So careless that nothing had a value of an emotional type.
    Now, is this the way some NT's function or have I gotten it all wrong?

    Gtzk
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  2. #2
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    No, no.

    NTs just tend to have less refined values than NFs and are less focused on them because they prefer to use logic to make decisions, it doesn't mean they have none.

    We joke about them all being heartless, soulless bastards because it's funny, but... most of them aren't. They're just kind of unexpressive, perhaps socially awkward and clumsy at self-expression if they haven't worked on it.

    If anything, there's a good chance an NTs values would be more SF in nature rather than taking on an NF air, although both are possible.

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    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    le sigh. No. And why would an NT who's matured and developed other functions suddenly have to become an NF? An NT with feelings and a healthy understanding of what emotional value is simply can't exist? I cry every time I watch the Green Mile. I guess I'll just turn in my INTJ card now.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

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    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ceecee View Post
    le sigh. No. And why would an NT who's matured and developed other functions suddenly have to become an NF? An NT with feelings and a healthy understanding of what emotional value is simply can't exist? I cry every time I watch the Green Mile. I guess I'll just turn in my INTJ card now.
    You're telling me you cry at the same scene each time... even after you KNOW what's going to happen?

    ...

    Like I said, SF values. Case in point.

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    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    You're telling me you cry at the same scene each time... even after you KNOW what's going to happen?

    ...

    Like I said, SF values. Case in point.
    After reading your *ahem* parenting advice, you'll understand why I don't put much stock in anything you post.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

  6. #6
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    My reasoning behind this is that I was once careless.
    So careless that nothing had a value of an emotional type.
    Now, is this the way some NT's function or have I gotten it all wrong?
    NTs trust Thinking, not Feeling, in order to make decisions.
    Among NTs in particular, you see a lot of rejection of anything smacking of emotion or values-based (AKA "subjective" in their mind) thinking; it feels unwieldy and dangerous.

    Usually values come at a later stage of life, but for most of childhood and into young adulthood, you'll mostly see NTs with an excruciating sense of detached logic, a somewhat flat (or limited) emotional range (except for maybe the ENTPs), and a distrust of values-based thinking. Basically, using values to evaluate and make decisions feels like standing on quicksand at best and draws ire/disdain at worst.

    What happens later is that T's generally mature into either accepting values-based thinking into appropriate circumstances or somehow meld it all together. (Example: The INTJ who originally was all about implementing her internal vision but now her internal vision is steered not by pragmatism or achievement but by some tertiary internal Fi sense of personal morality and she is cool with it.)

    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200
    You're telling me you cry at the same scene each time... even after you KNOW what's going to happen?
    If you see something of value in a particular story, situation, song, or whatever, then it's natural for people to feel deeply and sometimes cry. All it says is that you're engaged to the experience and invested in it.

    What does "knowing ahead of time" have to do with anything?
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  7. #7
    the Dark Prophet of Kualu
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    Quote Originally Posted by ceecee View Post
    le sigh. No. And why would an NT who's matured and developed other functions suddenly have to become an NF? An NT with feelings and a healthy understanding of what emotional value is simply can't exist? I cry every time I watch the Green Mile. I guess I'll just turn in my INTJ card now.
    No, I didn't say that, even though I implied it with my faulty questions.
    Good. Then I know.

    Athenian, no need to throw such into the ring is there?

    Reason I wondered was that of my own build.

    I reason that functions mature and types become less and less stereotypic and we build our own type with less defined rules along the way. That's probably just me though.
    Open for interpretation.
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    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    If you see something of value in a particular story, situation, song, or whatever, then it's natural for people to feel deeply and sometimes cry. All it says is that you're engaged to the experience and invested in it.

    What does "knowing ahead of time" have to do with anything?
    Hmm... I don't know.

    It's just that I've found that I usually only cry the first two or three times I see something, and then after that I'm kind of numb to it. Basically, it just begins to feel like a script and less meaningful, possibly to the point that I end up making bored, ironic comments or puns about a scene that once made me cry. It's almost as if it begins to seem less potent after I've experienced it often enough. I somehow "take it for granted" and can't feel anything more about it.

    I just know that I feel my most genuine feelings when it's something I've never experienced in exactly that way before, and even more so when it's unexpected. It's almost as if having experienced something already makes it less meaningful to me.

    But I wasn't too serious about the SF thing. I liked throwing it out there because it made sense to me, but I don't actually think all NTs develop values along SF lines rather than NF lines. It's always going to depend on the individual.

  9. #9
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    It's just that I've found that I usually only cry the first two or three times I see something, and then after that I'm kind of numb to it. Basically, it just begins to feel like a script and less meaningful, possibly to the point that I end up making bored, ironic comments or puns about a scene that once made me cry. It's almost as if it begins to seem less potent after I've experienced it often enough.
    Gee, maybe you should state that up front?
    You're not as extreme on this as had been presented.

    I agree with that, with many things. There is a natural period of desensitivity that occurs (as a physical/emotional protective response to intense stimulation). I notice it if I overplay an album or movie, my emotional response to it will lessen; however if I go a long while without experiencing it again, then see it or hear it, I'll have the initial response, since my body/psyche went back to "neutral" and it's fresh again.

    I've had a few things though that continue to move me regardless, they just tap into foundational aspects of my personality and life experience.

    I also hate to drag up the "hormonal" card but estrogen does seem to make the tear pathway a bit more accessible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200
    But I wasn't too serious about the SF thing. I liked throwing it out there because it made sense to me, but I don't actually think all NTs develop values along SF lines rather than NF lines. It's always going to depend on the individual.
    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200
    Quote Originally Posted by ceecee
    le sigh. No. And why would an NT who's matured and developed other functions suddenly have to become an NF? An NT with feelings and a healthy understanding of what emotional value is simply can't exist? I cry every time I watch the Green Mile. I guess I'll just turn in my INTJ card now....
    Like I said, SF values. Case in point.
    wellllll..... gotta say, that didn't seem much like just "throwing it out there."
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  10. #10
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Gee, maybe you should state that up front?
    You're not as extreme on this as had been presented.

    I agree with that, with many things. There is a natural period of desensitivity that occurs (as a physical/emotional protective response to intense stimulation). I notice it if I overplay an album or movie, my emotional response to it will lessen; however if I go a long while without experiencing it again, then see it or hear it, I'll have the initial response, since my body/psyche went back to "neutral" and it's fresh again.
    Oh! I guess I was thinking of when I see the same thing played over and over. Like "It's a Wonderful Life" during Christmas. Somehow it ends up coming on at least once a day right around that time, and then at first I feel something, but then after a while I just... don't. I end up making fun of it because it's so repetitive and I know what's going to happen. The same thing happens with Christmas as a whole. The carols get old, the songs get old, the movies get old... eventually you just don't care about any of it, because it's the same old thing.

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