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  1. #11
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    I have no feelings, only men to feed !
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  2. #12
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Imo emotion has no value, unless it can be rationalized enough. This might look bit cold on someone who cant rationalize theyr own feelings that well, but NTs can rationalize things pretty well, atleast compared to majority of F types.

    For example if someone gets raped and she is scared of men, it is rational feeling because of bad experience. How ever if someone is scared like that without getting raped or dont have eny other good enough rational reason for being scared, ill just coinsider her as fucked up in the head and i dont care to see that kind of people. Good enough rational reason could allso be chemical imbalance in brains that leads to mental disorders.

    Im not uncaring and i got feelings, i just dont show my caring in the same way as feelers usually do and i dont start crying for small reasons like some feelers do. For me that emotions come to surface they need to be pretty damn strong. This doesent mean that the emotion that comes to surface would be as small for me than emotion to feeler, i just filter the small emotions with rationalizing.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  3. #13
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    I make decisions based on thinking, but that doens't exclude havigna full emotional life. I just choose by thought not feeling - sometimes that in itself can cause great consternation.

    Body of evidence matters. Take a man, gorgeous, protective, nurturing and caring - the perfect boyfriend.... Make the relationship ideal in so many ways, both us us in our young twenties, fit healthy and probably looking our best... a proposal and a short engagment before I slapped the breaks on and thought - I can't get married this young, I want to do so much, I don't want to live in a small town, chained to a kitchen sink etc etc... no matter how perfect you are for me right now I need to grow into myself but I love you in such a monumental way. I couldn't marry him, heart renching, gut renching, hardest things I have ever done.... he is happy, with wife and kids and I'm thinking it's high time I put down roots, between that proposal and now, I've had more life than the averaged person lived 3 times over. Hurt for years....

    It wasn't the wrong choice, it was right for me, but I could have had an easier, more stable life, which would have been dull.

  4. #14
    Priestess Of Syrinx Katsuni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gtzk View Post
    has come up earlier but I couldn't find it in that case.

    Are NT's initially uncaring and careless of anything with an emotional value?
    Not really, but we tend to put much less emphasis on it, and don't consider it to be the primary choice. Emotions have value, obviously, love, hate, fear, etc, are all useful tools in one form or another. They can be used by the weilder, or used against yeu by yeur peers. Either way, they have their place.

    They just... don't have *THE* #1 place out of everything.

    Decisions based solely upon emotional conceptualization with no concept for logical presentation are flawed from the start and doomed to fail spectacularly, especially since, due to being based on emotion, they're more likely to be implemented widely and quickly, before anyone actually thinks to TEST it and find out the idea sucks hardcore.

    Decisions based solely upon logic tend to be far more useful, but also don't spread very quickly, since people who prefer emotional attachment will generally go GRRRR strongly to them. The logical decision also rarely caters to these mindsets, and more or less ignores them. As such, it rarely gains the support required.

    Due to this, though logical decisions are generally the better choice, they also ignore how it'll affect other's feelings alot of the time. Doing the "right" thing rarely makes people happy.




    Have NT's not built their emotional system? or could an NT turn into NF by harboring F-functions?
    Changing into NF? No. It's generally pretty consistent and solid; the point of it is whot yeur CORE VALUES ARE. I value thinking through problems to solve them, and hate watching people make terrible, stupid decisions just because they were pissed off or insistent that everything must match their beliefs identically. Common sense should be the first choice in decision determination; logic second, emotions are waaaaaaaaaaaay down the list. They're a factor to be considered, but not one that really holds much weight.

    Does this mean that I don't have an emotional system? Hardly, I'm actually very emotional by default, far moreso than most NF's even. I just have learned to control such because of the crap it's gotten me into over the years, and moreso, the crap I've seen it get OTHER people into. As such, I've developed an emotional system over time to maintain such.

    That being said however, many NT's are probably not like that. There's a good chance many actually are lacking that kind of emotional system yeu describe by default and need to develop such, especially earlier on in life. However, just because they develop one, it doesn't automatically make them NF. I think yeu're missing the distinction between T and F here; it's not whether yeu are purely 100% logical, or purely 100% emotional, but rather which yeu prefer to use in most situations.



    How does that work in that case?
    Oops I think I covered that in my last answer XD


    My reasoning behind this is that I was once careless.
    So careless that nothing had a value of an emotional type.
    Now, is this the way some NT's function or have I gotten it all wrong?
    "some" applies to everyone. It's how "some" NT's function. It's how "some" NF's function. It's how "some" SJ's function. But not SP's, screw them. >.>;

    Actually I hold nothing against SP's, I just didn't want to write 'some' out again XD

    Anyways, I do believe yeu may have an issue understanding this to a degree.

    Things can still have a value of an emotional type; I still have many things which I hold dear to me. I won't throw out birthday or christmas cards; I still have a stuffed animal that was given to me on the day of my birth as the first item I've ever owned, and cherish it to this day; I have small gifts given from people I respect, and similar stuff. These are very important to me emotionally, and I think most people are the same way in some respect or another, though the way they express such is likely to significantly differ from my own.

    That being said, however, there are always "some" who may loose all touch with emotions in general, and while there's the possibility an NT may be slightly more prone to than than an NF, or SF, an NT would probably also be slightly more resistant to emotional overload or burnout as well. So it kind of evens out. Then again, that's just my understanding on things, so I could also be wrong here =3

    In any case, NT's are emotionally dead by any means. I'm sure there's a few out there who are exceptions, but most are still fully capable of emotions. They just generally don't put as much value in them as they do in actually using yeur head instead of yeur heart when making decisions.

  5. #15
    Member Liquid and Flammable's Avatar
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    Emotions? Of course.

    My decisions are really rational, but that doesn't mean, that I ignore feelings in my body, if I decide something. They are just not primarly important.

    Sometimes I feel myself like an NF, and do something, an NF would do. But not for longer than one hour or two. For example, maybe I write a story in an more melancholic style, but then, after some hours, I wonder why I gave so much importance on the emotion. And then, if I wirte again, I build more rational parts inside.

    But being the whole time a cuddle-snuggle-sad-crying-NF (destending the description)?
    No, I would go crazy.

    I think, there is a difference between INTJs/ENTPs and INTPs/ENTJs.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gtzk View Post
    Are NT's initially uncaring and careless of anything with an emotional value?
    Have NT's not built their emotional system? or could an NT turn into NF by harboring F-functions?
    Not at all. But it might be that NTs can confuse themselves for NFs in the early stages of transition and/or typing. I like to think that NTs develop/use their feeling functions as they grow older, but only because that would make me slightly more mature than I once was. Actually, I forgot to state that NTs do have F functions in their first four function preferences.

    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    NTs just tend to have less refined values than NFs and are less focused on them because they prefer to use logic to make decisions, it doesn't mean they have none.

    We joke about them all being heartless, soulless bastards because it's funny, but... most of them aren't. They're just kind of unexpressive, perhaps socially awkward and clumsy at self-expression if they haven't worked on it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    If anything, there's a good chance an NTs values would be more SF in nature rather than taking on an NF air, although both are possible.
    This is interesting. How is it so?

  7. #17
    Senior Member epp's Avatar
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    I personally have very strong emotions and I surely express them sincerely and fully. well, ok, compared to other estonians (who tend to be very - I mean very reserved). I'm considered to be very emotional. by NF-s as well.

    then again - I agree fully with that:
    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    Imo emotion has no value, unless it can be rationalized enough.
    but I would like to add to this part:

    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    For example if someone gets raped and she is scared of men, it is rational feeling because of bad experience. How ever if someone is scared like that without getting raped or dont have eny other good enough rational reason for being scared, ill just coinsider her as fucked up in the head and i dont care to see that kind of people.
    when you dwell into it, there always are reasons, good and solid reasons to feel some way. e.g. a girl can be afraid of men without being raped, there might be other things in her life that make her feel that way.

    I have also found that I sort of get rid of my strong emotions the moment I see the reason behind them (unless the reasons are very serious (e.g. I have been raped), in which case it might take... longer... digging... but the scheme is still the same - I need to rationalise it). it goes something like: "ah, ok, I feel that because *insert the reason*, I can see it now, it's so clear! and, well, it was a long time ago, therefore there is no point to feel that way" and the emotion... disappears.

    I have an two NF friends (an INFP and an ENFJ) and they just don't get it. they say they can see the reasons and that there is no point, but it doesn't make them feel better one bit. quite difficult to explain this part, but really, it works.

    I also refuse to use my emotions to make any important decisions.
    quite like tinkerbell explained... I also have turned down a man I was in love with head-over-heels because a) the time was not right (I was too young!) and b) the reasons were not right... I know that being "in love" and lust fade away in time inevitably - stable love, friendship, mutual understanding, similar values in life and things like that, however, CAN last. there is just no point to build anything we want to last on something that is definitely going to fade away! it's so obvious!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Katsuni View Post
    Decisions based solely upon emotional conceptualization with no concept for logical presentation are flawed from the start and doomed to fail spectacularly, especially since, due to being based on emotion, they're more likely to be implemented widely and quickly, before anyone actually thinks to TEST it and find out the idea sucks hardcore.
    it was just an example, but it is a good illustration on how logic and common sense come first to me, then emotions which might be real and sincere nevertheless.

    Quote Originally Posted by Katsuni View Post
    Common sense should be the first choice in decision determination; logic second, emotions are waaaaaaaaaaaay down the list. They're a factor to be considered, but not one that really holds much weight.
    there is one more concept I have found it extremely difficult to explain to Fs, Ts, on the other hand, get it easily - there is a difference between WANTING something and EXPECTING something. I can really really want something, dream about it etc, but if I know it's not going to happen (very likely), I'm not expecting the result. therefore I can't get hurt if the said result is never going to happen... but I can still dream about it.

    I have learned to trust my gut feeling, however. but as sometimes intuition and emotion can be difficult to separate, I still always find out WHY my intuition says something as there always is a very good and rational reason... it's like I have made a rational decision in the back of my head, I just don't know it consciously yet.

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