[ENTP] ENTPs at work

[CJ99]

So I'm doing a gap year with a scheme called year in industry (Yini) at the ship yards in glasgow.I've just had my first mentor visit where you have a meeting with you mentor and one of the people from Yini.

It was interesting because my mentor hadn't quite been so bluntly honest before and he is an ESTJ.

One of the main points was that he didn't think I was "playing the game".
As in I don't really iron my clothes. I wear short sleaved shirts. I eat a lot at my desk. I don't fold things into to folders.

I don't act the same way as everyone else.

And he thinks I should. In his own words "you need to start playing the game".

Now I know I could if I tried but I don't know if I want to.

So my question is ENTPs how do you get by with "playing the game"?


Just till you know for an ESTJ my mentor is alright and most of what I do is managment related. Operations dept for any engineers.

 

[Argus]

I have been told by many close friends and my even psychologist that I not only fail to play "the game" but fully reject it and may even by incapable of playing it.
Which baffles them because I'm *insert virtuous quality*.

 

[Shimmy]

Those silly SJ's usually don't understand things that are different from what they are used to. You should explain to him why your way is without a doubt better then his way.

 

[Argus]

And he will with out a doubt shit himself.

 

[CJ99]

Those silly SJ's usually don't understand things that are different from what they are used to. You should explain to him why your way is without a doubt better then his way.

The problem is due to me being a gap year student who just left school and him being a seniors manager in the company for 30 years thats kinda hard.

Hes trying to teach me how to get by in the company all the way up to exec but the thing is while I know what he teaches is right I detest it.

I think I should of tried to get a diffferent job!

 

[Fluxkom]

I have been told by many close friends and my even psychologist that I not only fail to play "the game" but fully reject it and may even by incapable of playing it.
Which baffles them because I'm *insert virtuous quality*.

Any specific reason you see a psychologist?
I often thought about seeing one and try to talk him into believing I have a personality disorder or something funny.

 

[paintmuffin]

I know what you mean; I used to utterly reject "the game". And I was loud about it--I complained to teachers, screeched at my parents, and tried to rile up my friends for revolution during recess! This was when I was quite young, of course. Over time, though, I managed to sort of teach myself how to function in society. I chalk it up to Fe.

Sometimes I find myself being impatient with people who just can't bring themselves to figure it out like I did. At the same time, I detest people who advocate "the game" like it's the only system that works. Hmmm.

 

[VagrantFarce]

 

[Argus]

Any specific reason you see a psychologist?
I often thought about seeing one and try to talk him into believing I have a personality disorder or something funny.

Mental anguish, thought train incoherency, lack of energy, identity crises, parents. You name it.
I went to see him to get diagnosed for something because something was just wrong. It ended up being (as of right now) some kind of bipolar disorder. We also just talk about life.

At one point I told him it was my intention to beat him to a diagnosis. Just to see if I could.

Oh no, I'M LATE FOR MY APPOINTMENT!

 

[tinkerbell]

CJ

Your gap year is tough - because you don't want to invest too much. The reality is - like it or not, you will eventually need to work with/for someone... hence to an extent you can be the full on normal version of yourself.

They are paying your to do their job, not your own.... if you can manage to adapt and meet them part of the way you are far more likely to survive...

 

[Oberon]

Learning to "play the game" is an acquired skill, like driving a car in snow, or winning at poker. Think of it in those terms, and it becomes tolerable. Become good at playing the game, and you can actually work less.

 

[onemoretime]

That's not "the game". The Game is the political bullshit you pull to make sure that these little rules don't apply to you. Schmooze the superior to make sure that you've got utter job security, and make the manager get used to it.

Oh, and all of you just lost the game.

 

[Habba]

"The game" is out there for a reason, and resistance is futile.

By rejecting their game, aren't you kinda forcing them to play your game?

Anyways, I kinda understand what you mean anyways. "The game" is there because it's convenient. It's somewhat of an average of everybody's behavior and expectations. It fits us ISTJs just as bad as it fits you ENTPs. But it's a thing we have to tolerate in a society. Fighting it is fighting the society, and fighting society is fighting everyone around you.

What kind of game are we talking about anyways?

 

[Oberon]

For example, you wear the suit to the interview to prove that you can put on a suit. Fail to wear the suit, and you lose at the game. You can win twice over, however, by putting on the suit and fooling your interviewer into thinking that you're a guy who wears a suit.

 

[Katsuni]

This "game", as it's being called, is basically the hoops yeu have to jump through, the ways in which yeu control yeur colleagues, the ways to prevent them from getting their own control back on yeu, the crappy little rules to follow, the ridiculous office ettiquite, and so on.

To put it bluntly, I've never been good at playing the game. I excel at identifying the rules, and then breaking them in new and creative ways that noone's even considered before, while still maintaining the spirit of the rule, though soundly thrashing the letter of it.

I don't honestly believe I'm really capable of playing 'by the rules' or directly within the boundries set. I bend them, stretch them, force them to be more open to interpretation, and then interpret them in ways to mean whotever I want them to mean. This annoys most of the hardcore "must do so in THIS EXACT WAY" peoples, but considering I can walk the edge well enough to keep myself theoretically within the boundries, even if being fairly well past them, they can't do much about it other than be irritated.

Not sure how others react, but "the game" is no different than "tradition". It's pointless, inane crap with little to no purpose; it wastes time, effort and energy usually on things which have no value. Most ENTP's are heavily against tradition, especially inefficient, pointless tradition, and go out of their way to 'make it better', and ensure stomping all over the current tradition in the process to prove their way's better.

Yeur best bet, rather than trying to play by their rules, is to study them, understand them, and play by yeur own interpretation of those rules, so yeu can still claim to be following them.

 

[substitute]

The problem is due to me being a gap year student who just left school and him being a seniors manager in the company for 30 years thats kinda hard.

Hes trying to teach me how to get by in the company all the way up to exec but the thing is while I know what he teaches is right I detest it.

I think I should of tried to get a diffferent job!

Could try just respectfully saying that you appreciate his input, and you do take it on board and respect his experience, but the results might not always look on the outside like they do when he acts on the same info. There's more than one way to skin a cat, etc., and you take full responsibility for any failure on your part due to not doing as he advises.

All the same, you ought to make an effort with your appearance. That's not easy, I know, believe me. But there's a middle ground you can find between feeling stuffy and uncomfortable, and being scruffy enough that people comment and don't take you seriously.

I wouldn't recommend most of the smart arse answers that've been suggested here. You'll just go down as an arrogant adolescent prick, and it won't scare or impress anyone.

Once you make it to the high ranks, you'll be freer to indulge your eccentricities and they'll be indulged more. Once you've proven that there's serious ability behind it all and given a reason for people to consider your funny ways worth putting up with.

 

[CJ99]

Could try just respectfully saying that you appreciate his input, and you do take it on board and respect his experience, but the results might not always look on the outside like they do when he acts on the same info. There's more than one way to skin a cat, etc., and you take full responsibility for any failure on your part due to not doing as he advises.

All the same, you ought to make an effort with your appearance. That's not easy, I know, believe me. But there's a middle ground you can find between feeling stuffy and uncomfortable, and being scruffy enough that people comment and don't take you seriously.

I wouldn't recommend most of the smart arse answers that've been suggested here. You'll just go down as an arrogant adolescent prick, and it won't scare or impress anyone.

Once you make it to the high ranks, you'll be freer to indulge your eccentricities and they'll be indulged more. Once you've proven that there's serious ability behind it all and given a reason for people to consider your funny ways worth putting up with.

Yeah I know its was just annoying when at a visit to see how I was getting on one of his critisms was appearance when hes never said anything about it before. He said he couldn't take to me to an exec meeting because my shirt un-ironed (which I agree is fair), I eat too often (which really annoyed me), I always rolled up my sleaves (thats all I wear suit jackets and t-shirts or long sleaved striped shirt with rolled up sleeves and a tie I mean why the hell would a senior manager care about sleeves rolles up!:steam, I don't always wear a tie (which is fair enough time to go get some funky skiny ties in topman).

I know some of the stuff I stuff that is reasonable but some of it is just nitpicking - and my boss is known for nit picking - and all I could think at times was "I'm not a fucking sheep"

I know I need to adapt to "the game" but I'm not sure how far to go without loosing what I have.

Theres also my absentmindness which he blaims on tiredness mostly since when I started I fell asleep a lot. Mostly that was because I was a) getting up at 5 when I had been going to bed at 5 for the last 4 months b) starting a job while heavily involved in a musical c) him dragging me to 2 or 3 meetings a day I knew nothing about so I could get an overview.

But most of thats stopped now I've paced myself that and discover tea and coffe ain't bad. But he blames absentminded ness on that still.
How do you could with absentmindedness? Is there a secret to simulating Si?

 

[entropie]

Find the ENTP:

 

[Gish]

He's just out of frame next to the jackhammer.

 

[Skyward]

He's just out of frame next to the jackhammer.

That's what I was thinking, probably working with some dynamite.


About 'The game' . . . I usually fail at it since I'm pretty oblivious to the expectations of people around me.