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  1. #71
    Senior Member Timmy's Avatar
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    No. If from strangers, I generally get suspicious...but I attribute that more to my misanthropic nature than my ENTP-ness.

    If from a friend, it's something that I would expect a friend to do, just as I do for friends. If from a stranger, and the situation seems weird in the context of the kindness, I get suspicious.

    For example, I have on more than one occasion, hopped out of my truck to help someone push their out-of-gas car out of an intersection or into a parking lot. They are amazed, I say no problem and am on my way. In addition to having it SUCK to try and move a vehicle during an July afternoon in Arizona, it's just cool.

    But if I just walked up to someone and was "being kind", or whatever, I would rightly expect them to be suspicious.

    If someone does me a kindness, like covers a $1 or so I am short on some coffee drink, I am thankful, and try to "pay it forward" (I hate that phrase, but none other really fits). But it's not like they become my best friend. Nor would I expect them to become mine were the situation reversed.


    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    When I'm sad or feeling negative in any way, I absolutely DO NOT want it "acknowledged" or paid any attention to at all by anyone else, openly. I want to be left alone, for it to not be mentioned and for me to be free to work it out by myself when I'm alone, unless I specifically approach someone asking for their advice. So I guess I tend to think, if I do notice that someone's down, that I should respect their personal space and not intrude, not say anything about it unless they solicit it.
    Quoted for truth.

  2. #72
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Puppy View Post
    For ENTPs, they love my emotional happiness, caring, love, and positive feelings. However any display of unhappiness or pain makes them shun me. So when unhappy, I actually can not be sincere around most of them, with the exception of two very close friends. It is something I have been observing and working the past few months. It is very subtle and I dont think they are aware they do it. Even changes of vocal tone or facial expression are enough to make them withdraw a bit. For me, it is not ideal as it is rejection of my Fi. The ESTPs are even more apparent about this. So sincere happy makes them happy. Sincere sad makes them shun me.
    I must apologize. I couldnt see this from the inside.

    A state of Fe feels very calm, relaxed, benevolent. Fe evokes Fe in other Fe users-calm, relaxed, benevolence amplifying. As a group we are together, loved. Fi is love, but love tinged with pain. It hurts to use, even in the good times.

    For myself in an Fe state, a burst of Fi or Te from another person feels very disruptive, anxiety provoking. The calm waters were disrupted. I hesitantly suggest that a dom or aux Fe user is very stable in Fe, so the burst will provoke, but it is very easy to soothe internally.

    Perhaps tert Fe users have a harder time finding that quiet Fe spot? For me, cheating, I lose it often, but once found, it is soothing. (Fe is like a valium coated lollipop of benevolent love). So the tert Fe users avoid Fi/Te bursts as internally it feels annoying, distracting, disruptive of the smooth waters?

    Why is that person being so self centered and selfish? (thus pulling me away from my quiet, happy, productive place). I would suggest the more subtle aversion to others Fi pain-the shunning observed above- is almost an unconscious reflex/cringe, a learned pattern to avert the Fe disruption.

    Interestingly, you can show a EXTP pain and they will respond-it just has to be expressed in an Fe way, the right words, gestures, expressions. Subtle Fe waves that form interference patterns as the two Fe waves lap into each other. It is actually very beautiful.

  3. #73
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quit. You got a CV lying around somewhere? Quit. There's something bizarre going on in your workplace and I want to know if you have a firearms license.


    EDIT: WARNING, ILL-CONCEIVED RANT INCOMING:

    Sincerity plays well with FPs and TJs for, I rant, the simple reason that Fi users are all separate. We decide by ourselves what is and isn't honest, good and true. When we are sincere, other Fi users recognise the presence of a guiding value produced from inside and viola, we can work together.

    Sincerity in the FJ and TP community is different. It is no less sincere, but it is different. An Fi user doesn't automatically know how to trust it for, I rant on, the simple reason that Fe users count on a different ordering of what is valuable. Theirs is all around them. I wonder if it does not come and go according to the various perambulations and permutations of all the people in the environment, and I wonder too if this is not just the same as saying Fe sincerity is directive.

    If you're one kind of person, then for you Fe orders the outside world, and has Ti running along inside to order the inner understanding. If you're another kind of person, Te is the order of the outside world, and that's okay because Fi has set up your inner values. The twain may well one day meet, but as a wholistic accord, not as a subsumption of the one by the other.

    Fight! Resist! Enjoy! They are allowed to too.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  4. #74
    Senior Member forzen's Avatar
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    Yes,

    sincere kindness gets me everytime, its my kryptonite.

  5. #75
    Senior Member BlahBlahNounBlah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Puppy View Post
    I must apologize. I couldnt see this from the inside.

    A state of Fe feels very calm, relaxed, benevolent. Fe evokes Fe in other Fe users-calm, relaxed, benevolence amplifying. As a group we are together, loved. Fi is love, but love tinged with pain. It hurts to use, even in the good times.

    For myself in an Fe state, a burst of Fi or Te from another person feels very disruptive, anxiety provoking. The calm waters were disrupted. I hesitantly suggest that a dom or aux Fe user is very stable in Fe, so the burst will provoke, but it is very easy to soothe internally.

    Perhaps tert Fe users have a harder time finding that quiet Fe spot? For me, cheating, I lose it often, but once found, it is soothing. (Fe is like a valium coated lollipop of benevolent love). So the tert Fe users avoid Fi/Te bursts as internally it feels annoying, distracting, disruptive of the smooth waters?

    Why is that person being so self centered and selfish? (thus pulling me away from my quiet, happy, productive place). I would suggest the more subtle aversion to others Fi pain-the shunning observed above- is almost an unconscious reflex/cringe, a learned pattern to avert the Fe disruption.

    Interestingly, you can show a EXTP pain and they will respond-it just has to be expressed in an Fe way, the right words, gestures, expressions. Subtle Fe waves that form interference patterns as the two Fe waves lap into each other. It is actually very beautiful.


    I really appreciate this insight. It seems true to me. I try to understand and help when someone is pain ... but there's that translation issue that has to be worked through, and it doesn't happen automatically. It takes effort.
    I have a vagina.


    ENTP . 7w6 sx/sp

  6. #76
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    I wouldn't say that kindness makes me defenseless. I would say that sincerely kind loving people are easy for me to open up to and the make me feel protective of them. I think maybe because I'm always so cold, internally and externally, that when I experience this it is kind of awe-inspiring. I get like a "people can do that and feel comfortable and its acceptable?" feeling.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  7. #77
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    nope, I suspect that other people are nice because they want something, even if its just an interesting interaction where they could learn something. Isn't that why EVERYONE is nice to other people?
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  8. #78
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    ^nope
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  9. #79
    Senior Member forzen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    nope, I suspect that other people are nice because they want something, even if its just an interesting interaction where they could learn something. Isn't that why EVERYONE is nice to other people?
    Sincere, meaning unconditional kindness. The same way INTJ has the ability to be naturally cold/unfeeling/blunt/etc. I have my doubt about human kindness too, but there's a polar opposite to everything and i believe that their's people that's naturally kind.

  10. #80
    Senior Member BlahBlahNounBlah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    nope, I suspect that other people are nice because they want something, even if its just an interesting interaction where they could learn something. Isn't that why EVERYONE is nice to other people?

    I'm nice because:

    a) It feels good to be nice.

    b) Cruelty without a good reason doesn't contribute anything to mankind.


    Sometimes people think I'm being mean when I'm being honest, and I think that's their problem, not mine. But I'm never intentionally mean or cruel to anyone ever. At worst, I'm intentionally blunt.
    I have a vagina.


    ENTP . 7w6 sx/sp

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