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  1. #41
    Pumpernickel
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    Quote Originally Posted by sgtmac_46 View Post
    They're always fascinating........even if the result is a decades long intellectual feud.
    I still doubt I would be irritated by ENTPs.

  2. #42
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Imagine again. Here's how most of the arguments (and both types are all about arguing) seem to go:

    I have observed an external pattern or phenomenon across contextual lines (Ne), which leads me to believe that these governing principles will explain and categorize it (Ti.)
    Here's how you really operate:

    You meet two German women who claim to like peppermint ice cream.
    You think, "Eureka! It's a goddamn pattern!"

    Then you make the irrational claim:
    " All German women like peppermint ice cream."

  3. #43
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Here's how you really operate:

    You meet two German women who claim to like peppermint ice cream.
    You think, "Eureka! It's a goddamn pattern!"

    Then you make the irrational claim:
    " All German women like peppermint ice cream."
    Well no, not really. You don't seem to really understand the process of Ne inference.

    It's more like, "This information suggests that there may be some correlation between German women and liking peppermint ice cream, so maybe next time I meet a German woman that I want to get into bed I will buy her some peppermint ice cream and see what happens."

    If she doesn't like it, though, I will not forcefully shove the ice cream down her throat in dogmatic insistence that all German women like peppermint ice cream; I will simply reevaluate my belief that this correlation may exist. It's pretty easy for Ne to adapt quickly to changes in external methodology; that's the advantage. Suggesting that some correlation may exist is not committing with total faith; it's a perception not a judgment. All it's saying is, "Hmm, a high percentage of the German women I've met have liked peppermint ice cream." There's no attached judgment that all German women must therefore like it, just an observation which points us toward watching for that pattern in the future. We never really reach a definitive answer; the correlation just becomes stronger or weaker, more likely or less likely than it was before. Your insistence on definitive answers and quantifiable results in this situation is classic Te and leads you to grossly misrepresent the Ne approach.

    I know you see the disadvantage in that it's imprecise and doesn't always produce hard results, but there is an upside too. Most of your criticisms of my approach stem from a poor understanding of Ne and the way it operates.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  4. #44
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    You don't seem to really understand the process of Ne inference.

    I was talking about you, not Ne.
    You make absurd generalizations.
    Case in point:

    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    NTJs get all ruined when they turn E!
    Irrational bullshit.

  5. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by justxher View Post
    I still doubt I would be irritated by ENTPs.
    One of my best friends is ENTP, but assumes an INTP role when I am with him. We get along really well.

  6. #46
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    - People who do not learn.
    - People who are putting obstacles in the way simply because they have some kind of unfounded fear of you.
    - Incompetence, and in extension people who cannot spell properly. It's almost always a good indication that I will not be able to communicate with said person, even verbally. There are a few exceptions.
    - People who can't be persuaded when they're clearly wrong, simply because they hold on to some ideal. That's a double-edged sword, though. I also like loyalty.
    - Disloyalty.
    - Weakness of character.
    - People who break all kinds of rules without any other reason than pissing people off.
    - People who enforce rules too rigidly, and can't see that effectiveness and flexibility has a place in there sometimes, even if they're right most of the time.
    - People who aren't on time.
    - People who never prepare when that is needed for something important.
    - People who fail to inform others of important things in time.
    - People who do not have the willpower to overcome completely ridiculous phobias and the like.
    - Pacifists.
    - Peacemongers.
    - Militant vegans.
    - Greenpeace activists.
    - Junkies.
    - People who take stupid risks in order to impress others.
    - Those who cannot see potential risks because they lack imagination.
    - People who lack an active (healthy) imagination.
    - People in groups who consistently fails to do their part of the job.
    - People who thinks they're more intelligent/wise etc simply because they're old, as if that is something you "earn" by having been alive for a certain number of years.
    - People who fail to see realistically upon things. Maybe I already mentioned this one.

    I could go on forever. I spend a lot of time sorting through what I like in people, and what I dislike.
    Seldom, if ever, do I approve of anyone completely. I have noticed that some INFJs and ENFJs who have acquired logical thinking through character development are the ones that I usually end up trusting completely.

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post
    - People who do not learn.
    - People who are putting obstacles in the way simply because they have some kind of unfounded fear of you.
    - Incompetence, and in extension people who cannot spell properly. It's almost always a good indication that I will not be able to communicate with said person, even verbally. There are a few exceptions.
    - People who can't be persuaded when they're clearly wrong, simply because they hold on to some ideal. That's a double-edged sword, though. I also like loyalty.
    - Disloyalty.
    - Weakness of character.

    - People who break all kinds of rules without any other reason than pissing people off.
    - People who enforce rules too rigidly, and can't see that effectiveness and flexibility has a place in there sometimes, even if they're right most of the time.
    - People who aren't on time.
    - People who never prepare when that is needed for something important.
    - People who fail to inform others of important things in time.
    - People who do not have the willpower to overcome completely ridiculous phobias and the like.
    - Pacifists.
    - Peacemongers.
    - Militant vegans.
    - Greenpeace activists.
    - Junkies.

    - People who take stupid risks in order to impress others.
    - Those who cannot see potential risks because they lack imagination.
    - People who lack an active (healthy) imagination.
    - People in groups who consistently fails to do their part of the job.
    - People who thinks they're more intelligent/wise etc simply because they're old, as if that is something you "earn" by having been alive for a certain number of years.
    - People who fail to see realistically upon things. Maybe I already mentioned this one.

    I could go on forever. I spend a lot of time sorting through what I like in people, and what I dislike.
    Seldom, if ever, do I approve of anyone completely. I have noticed that some INFJs and ENFJs who have acquired logical thinking through character development are the ones that I usually end up trusting completely.
    For the most part I agree with your post. Although since I end up doing most of my shit myself, I am not as concerned with the beliefs of others unless it has some direct influence for my circumstance.

    On a side note, I am not the worlds best speller and communicate fine in person. Bluntly, but well.

  8. #48
    ThatGirl
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    Quote Originally Posted by bLAze View Post

    However, are ENTJ's youthful? I just cannot wait to have my own place, my own money to spend, my own rules to follow, my own decisions to follow. Basically, being in charge of myself. I just cannot fully appreciate my teenage years the same way that other types can, particularly the perceivers. Were any of you guys truly happy in high school, or did you write it off as stepping stone that the system has in place for you? I am so excited for life to truly begin that I get antsy in the present moment and cannot truly appreciate what is right infront of me. I'll even take it a step further and say it is impossible for me to truly relax.
    I moved out at 17 to a city where I didn't know anyone for the same reasons. Living alone and having control over your own life is not something I would give up for the world. Also the ability to support and take care of yourself well without ever relying on others. These goals aren't some pipe dream you chase, for me its almost a need, and the only time I am truly happy or working at my best.

    Now physically and mentally, I never ever ever want to get old. So I work out, try to keep my mind sharp by constantly learning new things, and avoid things like stagnation. In that sense, I will always be youthful.

  9. #49
    Alexander the Terrible yenom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post
    - People who do not learn.
    - People who are putting obstacles in the way simply because they have some kind of unfounded fear of you.
    - Incompetence, and in extension people who cannot spell properly. It's almost always a good indication that I will not be able to communicate with said person, even verbally. There are a few exceptions.
    - People who can't be persuaded when they're clearly wrong, simply because they hold on to some ideal. That's a double-edged sword, though. I also like loyalty.
    - Disloyalty.
    - Weakness of character.
    - People who break all kinds of rules without any other reason than pissing people off.
    - People who enforce rules too rigidly, and can't see that effectiveness and flexibility has a place in there sometimes, even if they're right most of the time.
    - People who aren't on time.
    - People who never prepare when that is needed for something important.
    - People who fail to inform others of important things in time.
    - People who do not have the willpower to overcome completely ridiculous phobias and the like.
    - Pacifists.
    - Peacemongers.
    - Militant vegans.
    - Greenpeace activists.
    - Junkies.
    - People who take stupid risks in order to impress others.
    - Those who cannot see potential risks because they lack imagination.
    - People who lack an active (healthy) imagination.
    - People in groups who consistently fails to do their part of the job.
    - People who thinks they're more intelligent/wise etc simply because they're old, as if that is something you "earn" by having been alive for a certain number of years.
    - People who fail to see realistically upon things. Maybe I already mentioned this one.

    I could go on forever. I spend a lot of time sorting through what I like in people, and what I dislike.
    Seldom, if ever, do I approve of anyone completely. I have noticed that some INFJs and ENFJs who have acquired logical thinking through character development are the ones that I usually end up trusting completely.
    I fit most of these descriptions, Jesus!



    -stupid people define
    -incompetence define this again from your perspective
    -late arrivals
    -inefficiency
    -bad drivers (a derivative of incompetency the way I see it)
    -insincere female interactions (LIKE OH MY GOD! IT IS SO GOOD TO SEE YOU!!)
    -insecurity in other people
    -poor internet grammar
    -people who fail to understand argumentsdefine arguemnt, you mean people who fail to see things in your point of view?
    -people who fail to recognize the ENTJ is most of the time correct Bullshit, are you right most of the time
    -people who fail to recognize that the ENTJ IS in fact capable of conceding defeat, it is just that we are very rarely wrong Bullshit again
    -people who say we have no feelings
    - liarsWhagts wrong with lying, we all lied at a certain point in our lives.
    - indecisiveness
    - people who put things off balance between work and play is important
    - people who are all talk, no action
    - insincerity
    - people who go out of their way to win our approval no thanks, sir.
    - people who attempt to put us in our places, fail, and then continue to tell us that we are too stubborn to understand them.
    - people who do not understand our hilarious sense of humorHAHA
    - People who think that we are mad merely because we enjoy to speak our minds
    The fear of poverty turns people into slaves of money.

    "In this Caesar there are many Mariuses"~Sulla

    Conquer your inner demons first before you conquer the world.

  10. #50
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    I was talking about you, not Ne.
    You make absurd generalizations.
    Case in point:
    You're the one that interprets them as definitive pronouncements...usually I'm just exploring the possibility that some connection might exist, not declaring with certainty that it absolutely does.

    And yet you never seem to interpret these the way I intend them. That's what leads me to believe you don't understand the context in which I'm speaking in most cases, and it's because you invariably interpret Ne brainstorming as Te law-declaring. You aren't even able to see how much your perspective is constantly colored by Te or how any non-Te approach to the external world might be useful.

    Every time you discuss typology you always relate it back to testing and who you think is testing personality type accurately and who isn't. You somehow don't realize that the entire concept is completely unquantifiable and immeasurable--buried in level after level after level of Te bias. You can't see any value in any external theory that can't be empirically measured, and it's the dumbest fucking thing on the planet. Trust me buddy, it gets old.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Irrational bullshit.
    It's a flipping joke, man. Here's more terrible Ne; not only are you incapable of listening to my ideas in the right context, you aren't even aware when I'm joking.

    Obviously I don't think INTJs are objectively better than ENTJs. There's nothing objective in the entire system of typology; it's just philosophy, not science. I do personally happen to get along better with the INTJs that I know than the ENTJs, but that's the joke, see?

    No, you probably don't. Listen, do me a favor and put me back on your ignore list. You never, ever correctly discern my shade of meaning or context and I'm just tired of explaining it to you.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

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