User Tag List

First 789101119 Last

Results 81 to 90 of 298

  1. #81
    From the Undertow CuriousFeeling's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    MBTI
    INfJ
    Enneagram
    4w5 sp/sx
    Socionics
    EII
    Posts
    3,456

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    -Intelligence: common for both types
    -highly competitive in classroom: I've seen it in both types
    -meaning is arbitrary: not sure
    -calm: seen it in both types
    -confident: an appearance of outward confidence is probably more common for INTJ's, generally speaking
    -likes to organize things: seen it in both types, but probably more common for INTJ's. INTP's are very good at it, but only when and if they want to be, which may not be that often. It's more of a chore for us, I think, rather than a preferred mode of operation. But, like I said, we are very capable of being highly organized if we choose to.
    -naturalistic, logical/mathematical/musical ability: I don't want to sell INTJ's short in these categories, but this seems more INTP-ish to me. I know INTJ's that are highly talented in logic/math, but I'm not sure about musical and naturalistic type stuff. These definitely seem more INTP, and we're usually very capable in math as well.

    I wouldn't be able to tell whether the person is INTJ or INTP based on the limited information in your post.

    Does he exhibit Te or Ne?
    I'm thinking Ne. He thinks of things from a global scale, everything is a part of something bigger. We're both intuitives, just I tend to look for hidden meanings in things, whereas he's more like "let's see the pattern".

    I know when it comes to telling me how he feels about things, he tends not to share, he gets very oblique about it. Perhaps he's more of an INTP.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Johari/Nohari

    “Thoughts are the shadows of our feelings -- always darker, emptier and simpler.”
    ― Friedrich Nietzsche




  2. #82
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Posts
    2,158

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousFeeling View Post
    I'm thinking Ne. He thinks of things from a global scale, everything is a part of something bigger. We're both intuitives, just I tend to look for hidden meanings in things, whereas he's more like "let's see the pattern".

    I know when it comes to telling me how he feels about things, he tends not to share, he gets very oblique about it. Perhaps he's more of an INTP.
    Could very well be INTP. Ask him questions about his views on things. "I was thinking about "x" the other day (the meaning of life, why there is so much tension in politics, why rabbits have big ears, etc, etc, etc) and I'm not really sure. What do you think, INTP?"

    That gives us the floor, shows us you're interested in what is going on inside our heads, and gives us a chance to extovert. Let him expand and go off on tangents a little bit and he'll begin to see that he can talk to you freely. Try to show in some small way at the end of the night (day), that you appreciated his insight or at least found what he had to say interesting. That should let him know that he's free to go ahead and talk to you on that level again next time - and this should allow the friendship to deepen.

  3. #83
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    MBTI
    intp
    Enneagram
    5
    Posts
    1,292

    Default

    VF, apologies if it looks like I'm always looking for flaws in your theory. :p It's not the case, I appreciate your work a lot, but I am big into the J/P question right now, and while your theories have great internal logic, I am still finding them hard to reconcile with my "instinct" (intuition? :s who kows)

    I have a friend who at first sight would seem an obvious INTJ: the INT are undoubted.

    Regarding the J, he is extremely structured and organized in temrs of his routines and living spaces.

    However, his thought process to me would seem Ti-dom. Now maybe I am wrong. But it is jsut that he seems completely guided by logic and getting to the finest, minutist definitions of everything, not really useful form any point of view of practicality or applicability. Likewise I haven't really noticed much "strategic" drive from him.

    This especially ntoable as he and I spent two years as the only representaives of our political (commie) party in a small town, and he didn't really think like much of an "evil villain", more a naive lad completely guided by strict (often rather formal) logic.

    He also really never showed any signs of brooding, comic-book villain type characteristics. I would say his "hidden motivation" or "excuse" was more Si than Fi - he would fall back on historical precedent when in doubt, and also had that "exercize" thing going on which I am told is very common to INTP's due to tertiary Si as a vulnerable poit (I have this too which is one of the points in favour me towards calling myself P).

    Likewise I didn't see much propensity to Se-binges in him, though not really much Fe either, so who knows on that count.

    You could propose that he was ISTJ, but I would find this a tough one to accept, as he has pretty much wholly devoted himself to theory (one of his flaws if anything).

    Now maybe I have misunderstood the INXJ - the ones I have known seem to have a brooding inner core which I lack - though maybe this is because I only knew unhealthy ones (one was bipolar), or was mistyping INFJ's for INTJ's.

    So, what would you type this guy as? to me it seems like his cognitive functions would match your INTP description, but the way he lives his life is extremely J, moreso than many confirmed J's.
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  4. #84
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w6 so/sx
    Posts
    3,467

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Haight View Post
    What if one is playful when they can be, but focused when they need to be? Or, when one prefers to be playful, but sees importance and necessity for being focused some of the time as well??

    Good question. This is exactly where the conventional typology breaks down. A person can easily have multiple types as they are defined in Keirsey's book and a typical online profile.

    The only way to avoid this is to define a type as a solidified natural tendency rather than a description of how a person behaves. For example, an introvert is someone who has the tendency to be energized more easily by low stimulation activity rather than high. This person may well be on some occassions very outgoing yet reserved on others, but this tells us nothing at all about his type.

    The OP has a fair share of both, legitimate typological inferences where type is defined as an unconscious tendency "compels a person to truly understand a situation in terms of its individual variables, and their inter-operating behaviour." and mistaken ones where type is defined as a set of behaviors or actions "Extraverted Thinking (Te) is the act of planning and creating models of action, in order to achieve specific and measureable goals." However, to the credit of its author, the former was by far more pronounced than the latter.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  5. #85
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    MBTI
    ?
    Enneagram
    ?
    Socionics
    ?
    Posts
    1

    Talking intj vs intp

    I took your 10 second test, unsure of what to expect. at first i didnt like the a) options in either of the first choices but then it all became easier to answerinteresting..my first test.lets go see what else i can find.ta

  6. #86
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    953 sp/so
    Posts
    5,708

    Default The INTJ/INTP Communication Gap

    Quote Originally Posted by Pitseleh View Post
    haha, thanks. For the longest time, I kept pegging him as an INTJ because he's not like most INTPs I know. However, INTP makes a lot more sense with the rampant miscommunication.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pitseleh View Post
    So do you have any suggestions for improving the communication gap that seems to occur?
    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    Could you explain a little more about the gap? For example, where misunderstandings seem to occur and where you end up diverging?

    One thing that helps me get on the same page with others is if they make it a point to clearly explain the terms they are using. INTPs will do this probably too much, but it's necessary for us to feel like we're looking at a situation clearly.
    I've found the communication gap between INTJ and INTP to be one of the best ways for an INTx to figure out which of the two types fits. A lot of the material that describes INTJs often describes someone who is rather fastidious and organized (because of the TJ), when most INTJs aren't like that at all. In fact, even very organized INTJs will "feel disorganized" because they aren't "organized enough." So even though the INTJ description mostly fits, the INTP seems to objectively fit better.

    Similarly, not all INTPs are as vague and absentminded and laid back as the typical descriptions suggest. In fact, INTPs can be very precise and fastidious about how ideas are expressed, nitpicking minor definitions, and they seem anything other than "laid back" when they do so.

    I believe that it is possible in terms of skills and training for a single person to both have prominent Te and Ti judging, depending on the material before them. Ti is where you figure it out for yourself, delving into the logic, not entirely trusting anothers' representation of the material to be entirely correct. Ti is your internalized logical understanding of a system/issue/problem. Te's focus is different: one's own understanding is still present, but it is voluntarily put to the test. It is compared to reality, compared to others' opinions/views/understandings, and it is actively searching for better ideas. Anyone who has had to work in a strongly technical field has had to develop both of these perspectives, or otherwise be crippled. If you don't develop your own understanding, you end up with a lot of confirmation bias and garbage-in-garbage-out spewing of bogus information. If you don't develop the ability to juggle ideas and perspectives other than your own, and honestly evaluate them, you won't be able to work smoothly with a technical team. If you are a competent member of a technical team, you might be better at one aspect than the other, but you do both: you have to.

    This makes it even more difficult to determine whether one is INTP or INTJ, because, well, you actually do have aspects of both, and it can be difficult to tell which one you lean on more readily.

    Now to the communication gap between these perspectives, where the function you lean on becomes more clear.

    The absolute best way to tell whether you're an INTJ or an INTP is to get into discussions with other INTJs and INTPs and see where the discusions go.

    The INTJ discussions will often be boring, even if you're both INTJs. The idea is communicated, there's nothing else to do, and the conversation is over. Once in a while, there's an interesting insight to be shared, someone says, "wow, cool," and the conversation is over. This attitude actually lends itself to the work world, where there is a job to be done, and spending hours just talking is problematic.

    The INTP discussions will go all over the place, due to Ne. Whenever one gets bored with the current topic (and often, even when one isn't bored with the topic), a new tangential topic becomes the centerpiece of the conversation for a while. Ideas are usually not resolved, though they might be defined, and inconsistencies are pointed out.

    Get an INTJ talking with an INTP, and generally, things go well. There's a lot in common, and even INTJs enjoy shooting the breeze about technical topics for a while, and INTPs enjoy many of the insights than INTJs have that they didn't think of themselves.

    However, once they disagree, the communication gap appears. What happens is that there is some particular problem or issue, and the INTJ and INTP both attempt to solve it. The problem is that the priorities that define a real solution are very different.

    The INTJ approach is, "Find the one or two things that need to be resolved, fix those, and be done." Ni plays a huge role for the INTJ in this respect: a huge amount of experience with past problems is compared with the current problem, in an almost supercomputer kind of way, and like magic, Ni throws up a few possible solutions. Te then sorts through these possibilities, throws out obviously bad ones, and then tests the ones the survive. What is left is "the correct solution." The INTJ will then implement the solution.

    The INTP approach is to understand the problem. Rather than using Ni, the INTP uses Ti to achieve this personal understanding, while using Ne to brainstorm for possibilities the conclusions of Ti clash with reality. This Ti/Ne combination is very good at finding potential problems that might be caused by any particular choice made to fix the issue at hand.

    Now, when the INTJ and INTP work together on the issue, these approaches will often clash. The INTJ is working to resolve things promptly, using Ni as a shortcut to achieve rapid understanding of the issue. The INTJ is fully capable of using Ti to analyze it in far more depth, but has abandoned this approach in favor of expediency. The INTP is working for a full understanding.

    The INTJ figures things out (or so he thinks), and then informs the INTP of the solution. The INTP uses Ti and Ne and quickly intuitively feels some apparent inconsistencies and logical contradictions in the INTJ solution. Given a bit more time, a lot of the contradictions/problems are verbalized.

    At this point, the INTJ does the same thing with the INTP's contradictions as he did with the original issue, resolving each one of those. It's actually a pretty good team-up, and the INTP brings up a lot of relevant and important points, which the INTJ quickly resolves. And then the INTP, still developing one's own personal understanding, doesn't stop.

    From the INTJ's perspective, the INTP points start sounding more like technical nitpicks, arbitrarily specific definitions, or entirely tangential observations. Most of the better INTP points the INTJ often classes as valid, but that the gain achieved by implementing the INTP idea is not worth the cost of implementing it.

    From the INTP's perspective, the INTJ is thinking sloppy, not considering all of the angles, willing to arbitrarily accept systemic flaws just to get the job done (badly), and in general not really trying to understand what is going on.

    So, if you're still wondering whether you're INTJ or INTP, figure out which side of this kind of argument you end up on. Do other people seem disinclined to REALLY look into a problem/issue and just slap on a patch? Or do you find that you already have a solution to the problem, and feel held back by having to explain that solution to everyone else, over and over again, until they understand it?

    I'll end it here. There's more details to be had, mostly along the lines of how INTJ and INTP end up talking in circles around each other, because each has a different priority and a different definition of what a good solution is.

  7. #87
    Senior Member VagrantFarce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    1,557

    Default

    Great post uumlau.
    Hello

  8. #88
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    FREE
    Enneagram
    594 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ne
    Posts
    42,333

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by VagrantFarce View Post
    Great post uumlau.
    Quite excellent -- articulated very well and summing up my own experience both as INTP and my interactions with INTJs... although I have no way of knowing what the internal INTJ experience is like.

    I was laughing at the conversation descriptions. I never know where we're going to end up with another xNTP... just that it's going to be pretty wild and cover a lot of varied ground.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  9. #89
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    953 sp/so
    Posts
    5,708

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Quite excellent -- articulated very well and summing up my own experience both as INTP and my interactions with INTJs... although I have no way of knowing what the internal INTJ experience is like.

    I was laughing at the conversation descriptions. I never know where we're going to end up with another xNTP... just that it's going to be pretty wild and cover a lot of varied ground.
    You actually might know what the internal INTJ experience is like, because I think both extroverted and introverted aspects of T are developed in those forced to develop them, even though it isn't official MBTI with function ordering. (My main issue with MBTI as a system is the function ordering, which I suspect is a linear simplification of a much more sophisticated set of priorities. I.e., it's "mostly true" but implies things that I do not believe are true.)

    Ni works like connect the dots. It's like looking at this picture:

    and instantly knowing, without having to think, that it's a picture of a lion. (And not a jaguar or a horse. Obviously, this is a very simple demonstration.)

    Everything that an INTJ sees has these kinds of patterns, that work like a computer program finding a match for a fingerprint or a face. The difference is that the patterns aren't attached to specific things. A "pencil" pattern could invoke an wood pencil, a mechanical pencil, a pen, a quill, a piece of chalk. The part that stays the same in the pattern is functionality, and it's Ni that keeps this focus. When an INTJ doesn't have these intuitive flashes, he loses that aura of confidence, and probably doesn't have applicable experience with a particular pattern.

    Ne is more broad, and "pencil" will invoke lead, which isn't really lead, but graphite, which is really carbon, in sheets, unlike the crystalline structure of carbon, which is diamond, which is formed by carbon that is exposed to high temperature and pressure for a long time, and Superman can turn coal into a diamond by squeezing it really hard, I wonder if he can actually see the molecular structure change as he squeezes it, that would be so cool, but maybe his hands are immune to his own x-ray vision so he couldn't see it, and how the heck does he cut his hair?

    Maintain a functional pattern by which you use your intuition, and you'll get the Ni effect, where all your intuitions stay focused on the task at hand. With practice, it just works. You look at something that is dark and mysterious to everyone else, and think, "Oh. That." And then you have to spend the next half an hour proving to everyone else that it really is that.

    The main thing that will get in your way of this experience is Ti, which will make you want to delve into it and be absolutely sure that Ni is correct; Te works well with Ni because it will be satisfied by making sure that Ni doesn't appear to be wrong.

  10. #90
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w6 sx/so
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    5,554

    Default

    ^ Nice. I like the Ne vs. Ni descriptions a lot.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

Similar Threads

  1. Video: INTJ vs INTP
    By highlander in forum Typology Videos and RSS Feeds
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 02-02-2015, 06:08 PM
  2. [MBTItm] STEM INTP VS INTJ VS ENTJ VS ENTP
    By Cryonium in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 02-14-2013, 09:44 AM
  3. INTJ vs INTP
    By Doctorjuice in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 113
    Last Post: 12-17-2012, 10:58 PM
  4. [NT] INTJ vs INTP
    By Giggly in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 06-12-2011, 12:00 AM
  5. [NT] INTJs vs. INTPs
    By MerkW in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 52
    Last Post: 09-05-2009, 04:46 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO