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  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew_Z View Post
    And what if I can relate to both descriptions relatively well?
    I have had this problem before. Some people say I am an INTJ, others have said I am more of an INTP. I don't see how people cannot operate with a scatterbrain and playful at one moment and then have a more linear focused operation the next. Many issues in life in a grand scale can revolve around both. Sometimes, I have ideas or thoughts that are spontaneous and other times, I walk a linear street. I decided that I am more of a "J" because ultimately I see a "right way" of doing things limited to a very decisive attitude.

  2. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlobalUniverse5 View Post
    I have had this problem before. Some people say I am an INTJ, others have said I am more of an INTP. I don't see how people cannot operate with a scatterbrain and playful at one moment and then have a more linear focused operation the next. Many issues in life in a grand scale can revolve around both. Sometimes, I have ideas or thoughts that are spontaneous and other times, I walk a linear street. I decided that I am more of a "J" because ultimately I see a "right way" of doing things limited to a very decisive attitude.
    As you can see in one particular INTJ brain specialty under the spoiler (click it), the Process Manager, as recorded by the brain research of Dario Nardi, INTJs are indeed in actuality expert brainstormers; they are also good at precise speaker, visual engineer, and purposeful futurist, all of which have a focus on translating internal maps into reality.


    source for that article - http://intjforum.com/showpost.php?p=...3&postcount=11
    source for the whole other brain specialties - http://intjforum.com/showpost.php?p=...3&postcount=17
    source for the whole thread - http://intjforum.com/showthread.php?...93#post2319793

  3. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poimandres View Post
    As you can see in one particular INTJ brain specialty under the spoiler (click it), the Process Manager, as recorded by the brain research of Dario Nardi, INTJs are indeed in actuality expert brainstormers; they are also good at precise speaker, visual engineer, and purposeful futurist, all of which have a focus on translating internal maps into reality.
    Well, I am not really a big fan of the MBTI anyways.

  4. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    It was pretty good, actually.
    Well, it seems you like my thoughts this year more than you did last year - I must be making progress!

    The one thing I would mention is that INTJs don't warp and alter the world merely by thinking about stuff (which is how your description makes it sound). Rather, we use perspective shifts to imagine warped worlds and how alternative foundations to those which are usually (or being) considered may explain the world's architecture.
    Okay, so you look at the same thing in many different ways, put in short. Perhaps this also has a similarity to the idea I read once of "Model-dependent realism", which is that our perceptions may or may not be giving us the complete picture (like we could be fish in a bowl calculating visually distorted movements of the constellations); but as long as we can create working predictions with them for our present context, then that's at least sufficient - that is, they can explain the world from alternate points of view, whether or not and at whatever levels those particular worldviews reflect reality. But then again, who's to say that our perceptions are any less real than the world itself?

    Any actual (i.e., objective) world-warping/foundation-altering can only take place on a more practical plane, like in business, politics, or some other schema in which an INTJ is trying to warp/alter something which they actually can affect (unlike the foundations of the universe).
    But we don't know yet what our minds can truly accomplish; perhaps right now controlling the cosmic forces is beyond us, but we can still build foundations for what powers we could unleash in the future. And then again, altering existence doesn't even need to be taken completely literally. It could just be a general philosophy for thinking with spectrums of boxes, or of refining rules for new value systems, and possibly even "willing" new things into being. I'm not saying that it shall be done, but as Nietzsche says, what's great in man is that he is a bridge, and not an end (goal).

    And now for the encryption of alien enemy codes...

    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    INTJs: concrete facts/reasons in the external world is abstracted through the subjective lens of possibilities. in the process the subjective view will be altered and then new concrete facts are viewed again through this new lens, which was influenced by the previous concrete facts(that happened to get through altered or unaltered by the abstraction process). this end result is what is seen as the reality(or maybe reality might be the wrong word, more like the view of things which will be acted based on). also personal complexes create quite a lot bigger bias to the process than what is apparent to other people and more often than not, to the INTJ himself.
    Um, you might as well just say that facts can expand our visions by giving us more reference points and pieces to work with.

    INTPs: possibilities triggered by the things in external world are analyzed and abstracted by logical reasoning. if some possibility is seen as possible due to it being rational and following logical reasoning, it will shape the reasoning of what is possible later. concrete facts in the external world arent seen as anything more real than the possibilities hiding behind them, because there is a possibility that what is seen isnt what it seems to be. because of this, the rationale and logic is seen as the "higher truth" than mere perceptions of what seems to be or plausible possibilities. while complexes create bias to all types, its not nearly as strong for INTPs usually, but what does create more bias to the INTP is the reasoning skills and which way they have developed. for instance if some piece of information is missing, it might skew up some logical conclusion, which might affect some other conclusion etc etc. but lucky changing some single parameter in the big picture is easy for us, because all it takes is a bit of logical reasoning
    At least for me, logic and possibility are both on separate planes - logic deals with deterministic sequences, whereas possibilities are more chaos-contingent. Logic can help to make things more stable perhaps, but it can also limit expansion. Possibility on the other hand has all promise to take on crazy shapes that are beyond what we might intuitively reason to be. Put more simply, it makes much more sense, at least for me to think in terms of currents rather than chains.

    when it comes to values, i think INTPs are much more rigid on things being good or bad than INTJs. from my experience in discussing about stuff as war and stuff like that with INTJs, while the INTJ point of view is that war is bad mmkay, but these sort of necessary evils have to be done, therefore its okay to kill people in circumstances of XXX. while my point of view is that killing cant be justified ever, except if someone is personally trying to kill you or someone else. and when it comes to things like defending our country for example if russians tried to conquer our country, i think it would still be unethical to kill them(majority of the soldiers would obviously be there and not wanting to kill, but doing so because their generals would kill them), unless they had a gun pointing at me and it would be unethical to deliberately get yourself in a situation where that might be the case. personally i would just flee to a forest if they attacked here and wouldnt care if i had to spend 20 years in prison for not defending my country, because at least i could act according to my moral laws..
    I relate to your thoughts here better than usual, even if it's explained in a maze. It makes sense that having a universal system of ethics would (ideally) give us a better blueprint for healing the world. If people do bad things just because it supposedly leads to the better good (like killing a sadistic Sith Lord or whatever without cause who's at your mercy), it still may not be right. I say this because dealing immediate justice like that doesn't give any hope for redemption, and as such, it limits the possibilities for enlightenment. The justice may be the logical choice, but the chance for the unworthy to redeem themselves open up the real possibilities.

  5. #245
    Senior Member danseen's Avatar
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    with no INTPs, humanity doesn't progress.

    Though INTJs are perhaps better implementers. I'd say though that INTPs better understand complexity and that humans are complex and not rigid.

    I see some INTP traits in myself, but whilst I value thinking outside the box, I don't see life at ALL as rigid. If anything I can be quite whimsical and irrational when I choose, which is more often than not haha..

  6. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by Il Morto Che Parla View Post
    There is not even any strong evidence that these types exist, so you may be asking for too much there.
    You might like this thread:

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...rs-briggs.html

  7. #247
    failed poetry slam career chubber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danseen View Post
    with no INTPs, humanity doesn't progress.

    Though INTJs are perhaps better implementers. I'd say though that INTPs better understand complexity and that humans are complex and not rigid.

    I see some INTP traits in myself, but whilst I value thinking outside the box, I don't see life at ALL as rigid. If anything I can be quite whimsical and irrational when I choose, which is more often than not haha..
    Were Isaac Newton, Ayn Rand, Mark Zuckerberg, John Nash, Nikola Tesla and Stephen Hawking all mistyped as INTJs then?

    We need both INTPs and INTJs in the world

  8. #248
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chubber View Post
    Were Isaac Newton, Ayn Rand, Mark Zuckerberg, John Nash, Nikola Tesla and Stephen Hawking all mistyped as INTJs then?

    We need both INTPs and INTJs in the world
    These types together make a great team. My SO is an INTP, and my workgroup contains some of each.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  9. #249
    Senior Member danseen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chubber View Post
    Were Isaac Newton, Ayn Rand, Mark Zuckerberg, John Nash, Nikola Tesla and Stephen Hawking all mistyped as INTJs then?

    We need both INTPs and INTJs in the world
    Well, no since nobody uses Facebook, and the theory of gravity was debunked in the 18th century.

  10. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by danseen View Post
    Well, no since nobody uses Facebook, and the theory of gravity was debunked in the 18th century.
    I thought gravitation by invisible attraction was debunked by Einstein in the 20th century, not the 18th century, but maybe there's something here you know about this that I don't. If so, please elaborate.

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