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  1. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Either way, it still doesn't make any sense at all. Typing dead people is a pointless and futile task.

    Are you aware that MBTI deals first and foremost with real-life social interaction? Have you met Isaac Newton and chat with him recently?
    Ah, don't spoil the fun; I was debunking a very good INTP ghost story - science and reason after all is the way to go rather than superstition and religion!

  2. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poimandres View Post
    Why Isaac Newton is INTJ (and a Narcissist)

    In short, he was way too much of an esoterically inclined and compulsive freak to not be an Ni dom or to not be a J. He was also much more of a 'prophet' or 'visionary' than an analyst. See Isaac Newton's occult studies for reference. INTPs as far as I know are way too rational to get lost in this kind of arcane maze of crazy cosmologies. The cause-and-effect theory developed by Newton is also based on dynamics and continual transformations, whereas Einstein's theory in constrast is all about comparing things to static frames of reference; this means that gravity is a very NiTe thing to invent, and relativity is a very TiNe thing to create.
    Agreed. There is no way Newton was INTP. He's about as INTP as Tiger Woods is.

  3. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Nor did what I say imply that people had to suffer from them
    "I would want to see a lot of really strong evidence before jumping to any conclusion about one type suffering from more complexes than any other."

    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  4. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    A useful video (thanks!), but just the tip of the iceberg. There are many topics within psychology about which I know little, and this is one. Just based on the video, I can see where complexes would form a more significant part of the INTJ perspective than the INTP based on how Ni/Fi operate. The degree to which they produce bias would depend significantly on how proficient the INTJ is with using Te/Se to conduct objective analysis and fact-checking. Would INTP complexes, then, be based more on Ti/Si?
    Its not that complexes are based on a function, its that introverted function strive to abstract in a way that goes towards an archetype and complexes are built on archetypes. also the degree to which an archetype is prevalent in a complex varies to person to person and complex to complex. you see archetype in itself isnt something you could ever directly experience, but the complexes built on the archetype gives the form for the archetype. for example if you take the anima archetype, anima isnt something that you could experience by itself, but the associations that are built on the anima create a complex on top of the archetypal idea of anima and these complexes are personal in their nature and are something that we can experience. this way for example when Ni is abstracting information about some person towards anima, its the cluster of feeling toned associations(complex) that it experiences, not the anima in its pure form(if you could even say that, because it doesent really have a form without complexes associated on it).

    When it comes to INTPs, its mostly Si that gets most heavily distorted by complexes. Ti is also effected by this, but its more like if you cant subjectively see something as capable of being true or logical, then it cant be seen that way and what ever information you have in your head determines that. But also Ti is perfectly capable of abstracting information from for example Fe, in which case the contents that Fe provides are abstracted towards archetypes and complexes creates an bias on which direction the abstraction will take.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  5. #235
    Senior Member Ism's Avatar
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    I was playing pool with these two girls that type as INTJ. We were a team of three (we all sucked) against a team of two (they didn't). It was pretty funny, the two of them tried to strategize the way to hit the ball. It was funny because strategizing doesn't matter if you can't hit the ball the right way, which we didn't. And so we lost.

  6. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    So you attribute complexes to a person's F function, whichever it is, and wherever it falls in their functional order?
    That is a fair point, I had not really considered that INTJs could have an Se complex.

    I guess as an extremely self-critical TP and someone who is pretty relaxed about others, I tend to most notice faults in others whicha re similair to my own potential weaknesses. So for me the passive aggressive sounding or "high horse" sounding TP led by an Fe which they are in denial about, is the thing I most feel disgust at seeing, because it reminds me of my own potential downfall which I am very conscious to avoid.

    I guess when I see INTJ's being unhealthy, I just think "wierdo" and don't even read the post, i.e. I just write it off as something outside my realm of understanding and therefore which I am a.) uninterested and therefore b.) have no right to judge or fight against.

  7. #237
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    Its not that complexes are based on a function, its that introverted function strive to abstract in a way that goes towards an archetype and complexes are built on archetypes. also the degree to which an archetype is prevalent in a complex varies to person to person and complex to complex. you see archetype in itself isnt something you could ever directly experience, but the complexes built on the archetype gives the form for the archetype. for example if you take the anima archetype, anima isnt something that you could experience by itself, but the associations that are built on the anima create a complex on top of the archetypal idea of anima and these complexes are personal in their nature and are something that we can experience. this way for example when Ni is abstracting information about some person towards anima, its the cluster of feeling toned associations(complex) that it experiences, not the anima in its pure form(if you could even say that, because it doesent really have a form without complexes associated on it).

    When it comes to INTPs, its mostly Si that gets most heavily distorted by complexes. Ti is also effected by this, but its more like if you cant subjectively see something as capable of being true or logical, then it cant be seen that way and what ever information you have in your head determines that. But also Ti is perfectly capable of abstracting information from for example Fe, in which case the contents that Fe provides are abstracted towards archetypes and complexes creates an bias on which direction the abstraction will take.
    How do these associations get "built on the anima [or other archetype]" to form a complex? Is this a process that is ongoing throughout one's life? That would suggest that one's complexes evolve over time, perhaps shaped by experiences. Is it possible to influence them consciously? How even does one become aware of them?

    Quote Originally Posted by Il Morto Che Parla View Post
    I guess as an extremely self-critical TP and someone who is pretty relaxed about others, I tend to most notice faults in others whicha re similair to my own potential weaknesses. So for me the passive aggressive sounding or "high horse" sounding TP led by an Fe which they are in denial about, is the thing I most feel disgust at seeing, because it reminds me of my own potential downfall which I am very conscious to avoid.
    So is a complex, then, always related to something negative, like personal faults? Do we get any benefit out of them, or can we use them to help ourselves in some way?
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  8. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    How do these associations get "built on the anima [or other archetype]" to form a complex? Is this a process that is ongoing throughout one's life? That would suggest that one's complexes evolve over time, perhaps shaped by experiences. Is it possible to influence them consciously? How even does one become aware of them?


    So is a complex, then, always related to something negative, like personal faults? Do we get any benefit out of them, or can we use them to help ourselves in some way?
    Archetypes are "Primordial, structural elements of the human psyche." and "Archetypes manifest both on a personal level, through complexes, and collectively, as characteristics of whole cultures. ".

    Complexes get built based on what we experience in our lives, things get associated around a common theme, for example money. Without all the associations around money, that thing wouldnt be anything else than just a piece of metal or paper, but when growing up we start to associate things with this piece of paper they call money. For example when we first get money from our parents to buy candy, we associate that with it, or when we get our first job and see that we need to work to get money to buy stuff, we associate those things with it. But the associations arent in our consciousness all the time, but are more like feeling toned associations that we dont need to consciously review every time we think of money. Some of these associations never reach consciousness and those things might cause us problems. For example with a gambler, they are driven by some factor(most likely greed, which undoubtedly has strong associations to some archetype) in the complex and deciding to gamble is not their conscious choice. Now there might be some other person who doesent associate this archetypal idea of greed to money nearly as much, but associate something completely different to it. Or someone who gets his living off from scamming people(like some african who does some email scams to people) would have his money complex built at least partially to the trickster archetype. When it comes to anima(i just talk of it in the ideal woman sort of way, even tho there is other sides to it aswell), someone might associate for example some of their first girlfriends qualities to their anima. These qualities of the first girlfriend are not archetypal, but personal in their nature and archetypes need this sort of personal associations in order for them to express themselves in our lives.

    And no complex isnt always related to something negative, its just that a complex might make us behave in negative ways(email scammer, gambler etc), but as well in positive ways(qualities of a perfect woman which you have found to be great qualities in your partner). And yes, we do get benefits from them, without complexes, you would just be someone without anything else than what your dna provided you for.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  9. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    "I would want to see a lot of really strong evidence before jumping to any conclusion about one type suffering from more complexes than any other."

    You need to take more English classes

  10. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    How do these associations get "built on the anima [or other archetype]" to form a complex? Is this a process that is ongoing throughout one's life? That would suggest that one's complexes evolve over time, perhaps shaped by experiences. Is it possible to influence them consciously? How even does one become aware of them?


    So is a complex, then, always related to something negative, like personal faults? Do we get any benefit out of them, or can we use them to help ourselves in some way?
    1) : a group of repressed desires and memories that exerts a dominating influence upon the personality (2) : an exaggerated reaction to or preoccupation with a subject or situation c : a group of obviously related units of which the degree and nature of the relationship is imperfectly known d : the sum of factors (as symptoms) characterizing a disease or condition

    Doesn't sound too good to me!

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