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  1. #201
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    This thread is full of player haters; you gotta respect each team member and our various unique gifts if you wish to accomplish stuff!

    I frankly don't know shit about functions, at least on a universal level, but based upon my reading of this thread, I believe to have observed the following points:

    1. INTPs determine the value of things by how they match their own internal constructions - INTJs develop various models that can change with context.
    2. INTPs follow the guidance of definitions and how they connect to other categories - INTJs warp the world around and alter the foundations behind its architecture.
    3. INTPs look for consistency between a static blueprint and its design - INTJs conceive contingent tranformations in evolutionary processes.

    On the whole, with INTPs there seems to be a focus on sound systems of logic, and INTJs on all the changes creation can take.

    Well folks, me being dead wrong or at least not completely right about parts in my above 'explanation' is a very real possibility, and as such, please feel free to point out anything I got wrong.

  2. #202
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poimandres View Post
    This thread is full of player haters; you gotta respect each team member and our various unique gifts if you wish to accomplish stuff!

    I frankly don't know shit about functions, at least on a universal level, but based upon my reading of this thread, I believe to have observed the following points:

    1. INTPs determine the value of things by how they match their own internal constructions - INTJs develop various models that can change with context.
    2. INTPs follow the guidance of definitions and how they connect to other categories - INTJs warp the world around and alter the foundations behind its architecture.
    3. INTPs look for consistency between a static blueprint and its design - INTJs conceive contingent tranformations in evolutionary processes.

    On the whole, with INTPs there seems to be a focus on sound systems of logic, and INTJs on all the changes creation can take.

    Well folks, me being dead wrong or at least not completely right about parts in my above 'explanation' is a very real possibility, and as such, please feel free to point out anything I got wrong.
    I haven't read this thread until now, but those sound like cognitive styles. An excellent list of cognitive styles is found in a book called "The Art Of Thinking" [Harrison & Bramson, Berkley Trade; Reprint edition (February 5, 2002)].

    A brief synopsis of these styles of thinking is given at Amazon.com:
    The Synthesist: Sees likeness in apparent opposites, interested in change
    The Idealist: Welcomes broad range of views, seeks ideal solutions
    The Pragmatist: Seeks shortest route to payoff: “Whatever works”
    The Analyst: Seeks “one best way,” interested in scientific solutions
    The Realist: Relies on facts and expert opinions, interested in concrete results


    Perhaps this list will help you clarify the distinction between INTJ and INTP.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  3. #203
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poimandres View Post
    This thread is full of player haters; you gotta respect each team member and our various unique gifts if you wish to accomplish stuff!

    I frankly don't know shit about functions, at least on a universal level, but based upon my reading of this thread, I believe to have observed the following points:

    1. INTPs determine the value of things by how they match their own internal constructions - INTJs develop various models that can change with context.
    2. INTPs follow the guidance of definitions and how they connect to other categories - INTJs warp the world around and alter the foundations behind its architecture.
    3. INTPs look for consistency between a static blueprint and its design - INTJs conceive contingent tranformations in evolutionary processes.

    On the whole, with INTPs there seems to be a focus on sound systems of logic, and INTJs on all the changes creation can take.

    Well folks, me being dead wrong or at least not completely right about parts in my above 'explanation' is a very real possibility, and as such, please feel free to point out anything I got wrong.
    It was pretty good, actually.

    The one thing I would mention is that INTJs don't warp and alter the world merely by thinking about stuff (which is how your description makes it sound). Rather, we use perspective shifts to imagine warped worlds and how alternative foundations to those which are usually (or being) considered may explain the world's architecture.

    Any actual (i.e., objective) world-warping/foundation-altering can only take place on a more practical plane, like in business, politics, or some other schema in which an INTJ is trying to warp/alter something which they actually can affect (unlike the foundations of the universe).

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poimandres View Post
    This thread is full of player haters; you gotta respect each team member and our various unique gifts if you wish to accomplish stuff!

    I frankly don't know shit about functions, at least on a universal level, but based upon my reading of this thread, I believe to have observed the following points:

    1. INTPs determine the value of things by how they match their own internal constructions - INTJs develop various models that can change with context.
    2. INTPs follow the guidance of definitions and how they connect to other categories - INTJs warp the world around and alter the foundations behind its architecture.
    3. INTPs look for consistency between a static blueprint and its design - INTJs conceive contingent tranformations in evolutionary processes.

    On the whole, with INTPs there seems to be a focus on sound systems of logic, and INTJs on all the changes creation can take.

    Well folks, me being dead wrong or at least not completely right about parts in my above 'explanation' is a very real possibility, and as such, please feel free to point out anything I got wrong.
    INTJs: concrete facts/reasons in the external world is abstracted through the subjective lens of possibilities. in the process the subjective view will be altered and then new concrete facts are viewed again through this new lens, which was influenced by the previous concrete facts(that happened to get through altered or unaltered by the abstraction process). this end result is what is seen as the reality(or maybe reality might be the wrong word, more like the view of things which will be acted based on). also personal complexes create quite a lot bigger bias to the process than what is apparent to other people and more often than not, to the INTJ himself.

    INTPs: possibilities triggered by the things in external world are analyzed and abstracted by logical reasoning. if some possibility is seen as possible due to it being rational and following logical reasoning, it will shape the reasoning of what is possible later. concrete facts in the external world arent seen as anything more real than the possibilities hiding behind them, because there is a possibility that what is seen isnt what it seems to be. because of this, the rationale and logic is seen as the "higher truth" than mere perceptions of what seems to be or plausible possibilities. while complexes create bias to all types, its not nearly as strong for INTPs usually, but what does create more bias to the INTP is the reasoning skills and which way they have developed. for instance if some piece of information is missing, it might skew up some logical conclusion, which might affect some other conclusion etc etc. but lucky changing some single parameter in the big picture is easy for us, because all it takes is a bit of logical reasoning

    when it comes to values, i think INTPs are much more rigid on things being good or bad than INTJs. from my experience in discussing about stuff as war and stuff like that with INTJs, while the INTJ point of view is that war is bad mmkay, but these sort of necessary evils have to be done, therefore its okay to kill people in circumstances of XXX. while my point of view is that killing cant be justified ever, except if someone is personally trying to kill you or someone else. and when it comes to things like defending our country for example if russians tried to conquer our country, i think it would still be unethical to kill them(majority of the soldiers would obviously be there and not wanting to kill, but doing so because their generals would kill them), unless they had a gun pointing at me and it would be unethical to deliberately get yourself in a situation where that might be the case. personally i would just flee to a forest if they attacked here and wouldnt care if i had to spend 20 years in prison for not defending my country, because at least i could act according to my moral laws..
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    ...also personal complexes create quite a lot bigger bias to the process than what is apparent to other people and more often than not, to the INTJ himself.

    ...while complexes create bias to all types, its not nearly as strong for INTPs usually...
    Although, ironically, it was an inferiority complex that caused these two (inaccurate and unnecessary) lines to be included in this otherwise accurate description.

  7. #207
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Although, ironically, it was an inferiority complex that caused these two (inaccurate and unnecessary) lines to be included in this otherwise accurate description.
    And then there's the circular expression, "if some possibility is seen as possible..."

    It's as if "possibility" is just axiomatic or something, definable only by its opposite.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Although, ironically, it was an inferiority complex that caused these two (inaccurate and unnecessary) lines to be included in this otherwise accurate description.
    haha i knew you were going to cry about that

    i think this would be easier for you to understand if you would learn about the concept of complex in more depth. it might even allow you to look at the sentence from more objective point of view, instead of just acting out from your complexes.

    its funny that you mentioned inferiority complex, because well:

    Quote Originally Posted by wiki
    An inferiority complex, is a behavior that is displayed through a lack of self-worth, an increase of doubt and uncertainty, and feeling of not measuring up to society's standards. It is often subconscious, and is thought to drive afflicted individuals to overcompensate, resulting either in spectacular achievement or extreme antisocial behavior.
    this is something that is seen in so many INTJs that its not even funny..
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
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  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    And then there's the circular expression, "if some possibility is seen as possible..."

    It's as if "possibility" is just axiomatic or something, definable only by its opposite.
    This is what intuition produces in INTPs:

    Quote Originally Posted by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Possibility
    possibility:
    Possibility also refers to something that "could happen", that is not precluded by the facts, but usually not probable.
    This is when the intuited idea is abstracted and reasoned and is found out that its not contradict any proven facts, laws or circumstances:

    Quote Originally Posted by http://www.thefreedictionary.com/possible
    possible:
    1. Capable of happening, existing, or being true without contradicting proven facts, laws, or circumstances.
    2. Capable of occurring or being done without offense to character, nature, or custom.
    I thought english was your native language :O
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
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  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    haha i knew you were going to cry about that
    Yes, and I knew that you knew that I'd called you out for its idiocy.

    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    i think this would be easier for you to understand if you would learn about the concept of complex in more depth. it might even allow you to look at the sentence from more objective point of view, instead of just acting out from your complexes.
    I think it would be easier for you to understand why it's inaccurate if you were to become more self-aware, and realize all the complexes that INTPs regularly carry with them. There's a reason INTPs are so predominantly enneagram 5, and enneagram 5 is the most common type to be plagued by personality disorders (schizoid, schizotypal, passive agressive, avoidant).

    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    its funny that you mentioned inferiority complex, because well:

    this is something that is seen in so many INTJs that its not even funny..
    It's also something that tons of INTPs carry with them.

    And something that many INTPs misread into INTJs.

    A wee bit of projection, one might conclude...


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